[jsr-314-open] AJAX library in JSF 2.0

[Jim Driscoll]

Hi Ryan -

Thanks for your question, comments inline:

On 9/13/09 12:42 AM, Dan Allen wrote:
> [added Ryan to cc]
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Dan Allen <dan.j.allen at gmail.com
> <mailto:dan.j.allen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>         This makes me worry that none of the major JSF UI component
>         libraries will be using the built-in AJAX library because it
>         doesn't have enough features.  Will JSF 2.1 complete the AJAX
>         functional requirements of RichFaces and IceFaces?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say "No".  There will always be room 
for innovation in the JSF Ajax component libraries for the forseeable 
future, whether it's in expanded functionality around something like 
request aggregation, Comet, Websockets, or something I haven't even 
heard of yet.  This is not a failing of JSF - it's a strength.

It's not the function of standards to lead the way in the adoption of 
new technologies (unless absolutely unavoidable) - that's a dangerous 
path that often leads to really clunky APIs.  Rather, it's a far better 
practice to continue encouraging innovation elsewhere, and adopt proven 
methods that work in a conservative manner... that said, I agree 100% 
with what Dan writes below:

>
>     We will both advocate for vendors to use the built-in Ajax library
>     and gather feedback as to where it is limited so that we can improve
>     on it.

The big concern is when the vendors make changes that make their 
components not interoperate with other components on a page - we'll be 
watching this closely, and seek to address it vigorously.  But as a user 
and customer of those vendors, you can do so as well, by letting them 
know that component interoperability is important to you.

Please note that one of RichFaces stated goals for the 4.0 release is to 
enable compatibility with other Ajax components, so we're off to a good 
start there, regardless of what codebase they choose to use.


>         Can anyone comment on how the JSF 2.0 AJAX library compares to
>         other major Java web frameworks?  Is it on-par, ahead of, or
>         behind other web frameworks?
>
>
>     It is certainly more conservative simply because we don't want to
>     dump in the kitchen sink and then regret it after the fact. However,
>     I know that the Ajax interaction itself is very clean, simple and
>     should be very straightforward for most developers to understand.
>     Again, Jim's blog is likely the best resource to get a feel for how
>     this Ajax library is used for you to judge for yourself.

Other web frameworks have an advantage that we do not - they can make 
radically incompatible changes later on down the line.  That's what Dan 
is alluding to - we can't afford to adopt a broken API.

And, as said in a different email on this thread:  Other web frameworks' 
primary goal is to provide a complete Ajax solution.  The goal of the 
JSF Ajax framework is to provide an easy to use set of basic functions 
which will be built upon by other members of the JSF ecosystem.  This is 
markedly different than most other framework's goals.

Jim