[keycloak-dev] WildFly integration (READ ME!)

Fri Feb 20 13:10:12 EST 2015

On 02/20/2015 12:52 PM, Stan Silvert wrote:
> On 2/20/2015 10:05 AM, Summers Pittman wrote:
>> On 02/19/2015 03:32 AM, Stian Thorgersen wrote:
>>> No comments?!
>> Peanut gallery chiming in; you asked for it ;)
>>
>> I am not a WildFly developer or administrator.  So read this email as
>> the opinions of a talented developer who loves the hell out of using
>> KeyCloak and WildFly and sings its praises from the roof tops but has no
>> idea what you are talking about.
> Thanks Summers.  Very valuable feedback.
Thanks for taking the time to explain some things I know more than I did 
this morning.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Stian Thorgersen" <stian at redhat.com>
>>>> To: "keycloak dev" <keycloak-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:08:50 AM
>>>> Subject: [keycloak-dev] WildFly integration (READ ME!)
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> We have a few decisions to make in the not so far future. I'm away from
>>>> Thursday, so let's have a hangout when I get back on the 17th February if
>>>> that works for everyone.
>>>>
>>>> The list of things to discuss includes:
>>>>
>>>> * Drop keycloak-server.json - Should we drop our own configuration file and
>>>> use DMR (standalone.xml)
>> If on day one enabling KeyCloak in my project was any more complicated
>> than dropping a pregenerated file into my WEB-INF directory I would have
>> closed the project and never looked back.  -1
> We're talking about the auth server's config rather than the config for
> your project.   For projects, we want to make it even easier to the
> point where you don't even need the json file to get a default
> configuration.
Ah, that makes more sense.
>>>> * Keycloak CLI - Should we create our own or use WildFly CLI
>> On the one hand the wildfly CLI is black magic.  On the other hand it is
>> really well done black magic.  It is very hard to do CLIs well so I
>> would like to see the wildfly CLI be used.
> That's the general feedback we often get from the WildFly community.  I
> agree.
>>>> * Admin operations exposed over DMR - Should we expose none, some or all
>>>> admin operations over DMR? If we expose all should we deprecate the current
>>>> REST endpoints?
>> Is DMR the thing that puts stuff in the WildFly admin UI (I tried to
>> read the google result for "wildfly DMR" but it quickly turned into
>> turtles all the way down)?
> At its core, DMR is really just a tiny single-package library where the
> API is just 3 or 4 classes.  Those classes are the "language" spoken to
> make changes to the WildFly management model
> (standalone.xml/domain.xml).  So the question is whether we should hook
> into the management model infrastructure to make Keycloak changes.
>> In my experience I don't LIKE using the WildFly admin UI, I would rather
>> use the CLI, scripts, etc.
> Also a typical response.  Again, I agree.  Thankfully, the Keycloak
> admin UI doesn't suffer from the same deficiencies as the WildFly admin UI.
>
> But with Keycloak, we don't yet have a CLI, so there are lots of
> questions around whether we piggyback on WildFly CLI, which means
> adopting DMR in some way.
>> I haven't used the KeyCloak REST endpoints
>> and keeping them just increases the attack surface.
> Do you mean that keeping the REST endpoints would be a good thing or a
> bad thing?  Can we hear more from you on this topic?
I think that if there were a WildFly way to do all of the admin tasks 
that the RESTful endpoints do now it would be good to remove the RESTful 
API to decrease the API surface to just WildFly.  IE fewer things to 
worry about getting hacked and to watch for for vulnerabilities.
>>>> * Packaging/distribution - How do we distribute Keycloak? Options:
>>>>      - Full WildFly
>>>>      - Core/web WildFly
>>>>      - Overlay/installer/feature-pack to install to existing WF and EAP
>>>>      - WAR bundle
>> How about a shell script that examines a WF install directory and does
>> all the magic for me or aDocker container?
>>
>> In general I have not liked the experience of having wildfly bundled
>> with a product.  It tends to mess with other servers I have installed
>> and be a general PITA to maintain for anything more than the most
>> trivial of demos.
> Good feedback.
>>>> * How should we deal with providers, themes and keycloak-server.json in
>>>> domain-mode
>>>>
>>>> * MSC all the way - We can deploy directly through the Undertow sub-system
>>>> instead of deploying a WAR from the sub-system
>> What is MSC?
> Modular Service Container.  It's the thing that lets you declare and
> register services in WildFly.  But I'm not completely sure what Stian is
> proposing here.
>>>> * Split sub-systems - Should we split the sub-system in two? One for the
>>>> auth-server and another for the adapter
>> What are the trade offs?  What will using KeyCloak look like from my POV
>> if we split?
> Instead of
>
> subsystem=keycloak/auth-server=main-auth-server
> subsystem=keycloak/secure-deployment=foo
>
> you would have
>
> subsystem=keycloak-server/auth-server=main-auth-server
> subsystem=keycloak-deployments/secure-deployment=foo
>
> Another option would be to just leave it as it is today and just hide
> the "auth-server" resource for installations where you don't expect the
> auth server to run.
>
> The answer will probably be more a function of how we want to organize
> the code rather than how it will look to the end user.
As a end user it sounds like both work for me.
>>>> * Deployable to other containers - Should it be possible to deploy Keycloak
>>>> to Tomcat, Jetty, Fuse, etc..? One option could be to have reduced features
>>>> in other containers (for example no client-cert)
>> The awesomeness of WildFly has forever made web containers look
>> insignificant to me.  If Glassfish still had a community edition worth a
>> damn I would say target it as well.  I don't know how TomEE is but that
>> may be good to support just for a "first one's free" to get people into
>> WildFly land.
>>
>> I don't think Websphere or WebLogic support has ever gotten anyone
>> excited about a project.  Honestly they are the technology equivalent of
>> taking a cold shower with grandma.
> I could have done without that image. :-|
>
> But thanks again!
YW.
>>>> Please add any other relevant topics.
>>>>
>>>> Next big discussion I want to have is about distribution of adapters, but
>>>> let's do one at a time ;)
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>>>>
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-- 
Summers Pittman
>>Phone:404 941 4698
>>Java is my crack.