[cdi-dev] [jsr342-experts] CDI in Application Client Container

Pete Muir pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk
Wed Nov 14 09:34:16 EST 2012 

On 13 Nov 2012, at 21:32, Mark Struberg wrote:

> Hi Pete!
> 
> Sorry, I guess my wording was not to the point.
> 
> Of course we really like to help the EE umbrella guys and ladies. My point was rather a question: is it formally possible that the EE spec paper contains rules specifically only for the CDI containers? Or must this be handled in the CDI spec (which I assumed so far).

I think it's not clear what happens in this situation :-(

> 
> Again, this has nothing to do if we like to do that or not but only if it is formally allowed.
> 
> 
> LieGrue,
> strub
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Pete Muir <pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk>
>> To: Mark Struberg <struberg at yahoo.de>
>> Cc: "cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org" <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] [jsr342-experts] CDI in Application Client Container
>> 
>> No, they can't impose stuff on CDI, but then can ask nicely, and we should 
>> try to help them like the nice friendly people we are, remembering we have lots 
>> of stuff we want them to change ;-)
>> 
>> On 13 Nov 2012, at 13:04, Mark Struberg wrote:
>> 
>>> A 2-edged sword.
>>> Of course this is clearly a bug in the EE-6 spec and not in CDI.
>>> Otoh I don't like to have the EE umbrella spec impose rules on a CDI 
>> container. They really are not allowed to impose such rules on CDI in the first 
>> place, isn't?
>>> 
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Pete Muir <pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk>
>>>> To: cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> Cc: 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:45 AM
>>>> Subject: [cdi-dev] Fwd: [jsr342-experts] CDI in Application Client 
>> Container
>>>> 
>>>> All,
>>>> 
>>>> It's come to light that whilst the CDI spec explicitly does not 
>> require 
>>>> support for the Java EE client container, the Java EE spec does require 
>> support 
>>>> for it. There are no TCK tests for this.
>>>> 
>>>> The Java EE spec leads would like to rectify this by changing the CDI 
>> spec to 
>>>> require support for it, however, I would prefer to alter the Java EE 
>> spec and 
>>>> recognise this as a bug in the Java EE spec. IMO this relates very 
>> closely to 
>>>> Java SE support, which I we want to address in CDI 2, not in 1.1.
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Jason Greene <jason.greene at redhat.com>
>>>>> Subject: [jsr342-experts] Re: CDI in Application Client Container
>>>>> Date: 12 November 2012 23:58:17 GMT
>>>>> To: jsr342-experts at javaee-spec.java.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> We purposefully did not include support for the app client 
>> container in the 
>>>> CDI spec, mainly because it has low usage, there are numerous 
>> differences in 
>>>> container implementations, SE support was politically unpopular at the 
>> time, and 
>>>> we were waiting to see what happened with modularity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 11, 2012, at 2:07 PM, Bill Shannon 
>> <bill.shannon at oracle.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sigh...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It appears that we neither implemented nor tested support for 
>> CDI in 
>>>> the app client container.  Clearly something we'll need to fix for 
>> EE 7, if 
>>>> not sooner.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill Shannon wrote on 11/09/2012 04:47 PM:
>>>>>>> Yes, based on the Java EE 6 platform spec, I intended and 
>> expected 
>>>> CDI to work in the app client container.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm trying to find out what we actually implemented and 
>> 
>>>> tested...  :-)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves wrote on 11/09/12 14:10:
>>>>>>>> Ok, good to know. But that means that all ACC 
>> implementations 
>>>> should support it then ? As Pete said, looks like the JBoss one 
>> doesn't....
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I found the mail I sent to the GlassFish forum a couple 
>> of 
>>>> years ago about this topic 
>>>> 
>> (http://www.java.net/forum/topic/glassfish/glassfish/using-cdi-acc-se-environment). 
>> 
>>>> I'll be doing more test to make sure and fill a bug if needed.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Bill Shannon 
>>>> <bill.shannon at oracle.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> CDI is supposed to be supported in the app client 
>> container.  
>>>> If it's not working, please file bugs.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves wrote on 11/09/12 06:09:
>>>>>>>>> Hum.... for me it's just another container 
>> (EJB, 
>>>> Servlet & Client) so I would expect the same services from CDI. ACC 
>> is not 
>>>> plain Java SE, it's a container that gives you a small set of 
>> services, and 
>>>> that includes CDI (as per Java EE specification). 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill/Linda, if CDI is not supported in ACC why not 
>> getting 
>>>> rid of it in Figure EE.2-1 ? It's confusing.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Antonio  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Pete Muir 
>>>> <pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> This also ties in to more general Java SE support 
>> for CDI 
>>>> IMO. I would probably prefer to get a general solution sorted, rather 
>> than a 
>>>> special case for ACC.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 9 Nov 2012, at 14:56, Antonio Goncalves wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I like to use Producers and Alternatives so I 
>> can 
>>>> easily switch context. In the case of having CDI in ACC that would 
>> allow me to 
>>>> invoke different Web Serivces just by changing beans.xml
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Pete Muir 
>>>> <pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It's not in the cdi tck so I doubt it is in 
>> jboss 
>>>> as.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Nigel's point about scopes is very 
>> relevant.
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Nov 2012 14:03, "Antonio 
>> Goncalves" 
>>>> <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not an ACC expert, but I do use it once 
>> in a 
>>>> while. But to be honest, I don't know why it doesn't work. If 
>> you look 
>>>> at the EE spec (eg. EE 7 - Figure EE.2-1) you see that CDI & DI is 
>> in the 
>>>> ACC. But on the other hand, the CDI 1.0 spec (12.1. Bean archives) says 
>> 
>>>> "The container is not required to support application client jar 
>> bean 
>>>> archives." I tried several time with the appclient from GlassFish, 
>> and CDI 
>>>> just doesn't work (wonder if JBoss ACC allows CDI or not). The 
>> "is not 
>>>> required" part is frustrating.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Antonio
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Pete Muir 
>>>> <pmuir at bleepbleep.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not an expert in the ACC, so would need 
>> a ACC 
>>>> expert who knows CDI to help us define the behavior. Interested 
>> Antonio?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Nov 2012, at 12:41, Antonio Goncalves 
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong but I 
>> haven't seen 
>>>> any discussion on this topic. In Java EE 6 CDI doesn't work in ACC. 
>> 
>>>> Wouldn't it be useful to add it in                                
>> EE 7 ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A use case I'm working on at the moment 
>> is that 
>>>> I have a Java SE class (running in ACC) that injects a web service 
>> reference 
>>>> with @WebServiceRef. With CDI enabled I could produce this reference 
>> and just 
>>>> @Inject it.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>>>>>>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Web site | Twitter | LinkedIn | Paris JUG | 
>> Devoxx 
>>>> France
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>>>>>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Web site | Twitter | LinkedIn | Paris JUG | 
>> Devoxx 
>>>> France
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>>>>>>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Web site | Twitter | LinkedIn | Paris JUG | 
>> Devoxx 
>>>> France
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves 
>>>>>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Web site | Twitter | LinkedIn | Paris JUG | Devoxx 
>> France
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Antonio Goncalves 
>>>>>>>> Software architect and Java Champion
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Web site | Twitter | LinkedIn | Paris JUG | Devoxx 
>> France
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>

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