[cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite

Sun Aug 30 10:35:11 EDT 2015

Seems, from Tapestry 5.3 on you can use both, so it doesn't look like it
completely abandoned its own:
https://tapestry.apache.org/using-jsr-330-standard-annotations.html

Luckily the 2 JSRs (with a bit of help and moderation by others) 299 and
330 did end up building on top of each other (in reverse order) rather than
reinventing the wheel and competing with other libraries even inside the
same platform or environment (like we see a lot in Java SE and to some
extent also in EE elsewhere;-)

Werner

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looking at the requirements for SE Embedded (on the lower side of SE)
> probably helps:
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/embedded-se/documentation/javase-embedded-sysreq-2043454.html
>
> The 3 MB binary app size Romain mentioned is a good example. Could be a
> bit steep for Embedded, but as an upper end it sounds reasonable.
>
> Btw. although Rod Johnson and Bob Lee were listed as co Spec Leads, pretty
> much every initial contribution and effort came from Google/Bob:
> https://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=330
>
> The EG had a couple of others like Tapestry, but I am not sure, when it
> e.g. adopted JSR 330 instead of its own DI library if it ever fully
> supported it to date?
>
> Werner
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:11 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)
>>    2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Werner Keil)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:02:32 +0200
>> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
>> To: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
>> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CACLE=
>> 7Mu5mMB3tFWLtPxNXRpKrR82xKku5saFB9it3n-8RU1aQ at mail.gmail.com>
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>>
>> Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them up if it can
>> help:
>>
>> - binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is "Lite"
>> - features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since you almost
>> always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be used - check
>> spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?
>> - features complexity: sure we are not light here but supporting scopes
>> already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue
>>
>> So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec and spec can't affect
>> implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <
>> https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Tomitriber
>> <http://www.tomitribe.com>
>>
>> 2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com
>> >:
>>
>> > It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back in Java EE 6 where he
>> > forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much  ;o)
>> >
>> > For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency injection. The fact that
>> CDI
>> > can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it has nothing
>> to
>> > do with Light : it's the entire thing that can bootstrap in SE. Good.
>> >
>> > So what is Lite for you guys ?
>> >
>> > Antonio
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> rmannibucau at gmail.com
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <john.d.ament at gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down runtime.  It was tried
>> >>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most implementations that
>> support
>> >>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except for deprecated
>> stuff).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version will miss events
>> >> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro services from
>> >> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be < 1M so not sure it
>> >> would bring anything. Only important point is what Antoine started to
>> do ie
>> >> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and split in the spec.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have a need for this.
>> >>>
>> >>> John
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves <
>> >>> antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI Lite ? Are you sure
>> about
>> >>>> events ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330 that would have :
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    - @Inject : already there
>> >>>>    - @Qualifier : already there
>> >>>>    -
>> >>>> *Producers and disposers *
>> >>>>    -
>> >>>> *Programatic lookup *
>> >>>>    - *Java SE Bootstrap*
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to propose a new EE profile but a
>> >>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a subspec. If you put events
>> >>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in your point of view ?
>> And
>> >>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not having an
>> >>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then, CDIProvider could
>> extend
>> >>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all thing) ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Antonio
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <
>> >>>> antoine at sabot-durand.net> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first reason. We really should work with
>> >>>>> them to understand what should be added to CDI 2.0 to have it as a
>> first
>> >>>>> citizen DI in their spec.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms <arjan.tijms at gmail.com> a
>> >>>>> ?crit :
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Antonio Goncalves
>> >>>>>> <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > I remember talking with the JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years ago
>> (back
>> >>>>>> in EE6),
>> >>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting CDI was "too heavy".
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I can't find an exact reference anymore, but I somewhat remember
>> that
>> >>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply that CDI as a general solution
>> >>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while JAX-RS finished earlier and had
>> all
>> >>>>>> the work for their own DI solution already done.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Antonio Goncalves
>> >>>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
>> >>>> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
>> >>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
>> >>>> <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
>> | Paris
>> >>>> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Antonio Goncalves
>> > Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
>> >
>> > Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
>> > <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
>> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
>> > <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves> |
>> Paris
>> > JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
>> >
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