[cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
Romain Manni-Bucau
rmannibucau at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 15:32:49 EDT 2015
2015-08-30 21:20 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com>:
> Well if we found a way to offer some level of modularity and optionality
> (despite SE or EE 8 not putting a strong emphasis on either yet) I would
> certainly see it as an option. This could keep the size for some apps down
> if they use other event systems already.
>
>
strictly yes, in practice the event bus is rarely more than few kb so does
it worth the time the EG would spend on it?
> Werner
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:11 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org> wrote:
>
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>> 1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:24 +0200
>> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
>> To: Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com>
>> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACLE=
>> 7PgKRmCrKiN1+xxLvqCtm3V1AE8D3c7kz_1W_wp1fuxkw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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>>
>> 2015-08-30 20:29 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > As there is well-established event handling on the SE and ME side, in
>> most
>> > cases based on java.util.EventObject, I could imagine CDI events being
>> > either outside a "lite" profile or at least optional, should we consider
>> > optionality.
>> >
>> >
>> not sure I agree, SE has an event hierarchy but its listener model is not
>> as usable as CDI most of the time because of the register side
>>
>>
>> > Werner
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 6:10 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
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>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Re: cdi-dev Digest, Vol 57, Issue 33 (Romain Manni-Bucau)
>> >> 2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Antonio Goncalves)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:09:41 +0200
>> >> From: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
>> >> To: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >> <CA+ZZq9-YFcTKuZr=+6v=
>> >> wH-w670E++qgBrN36DsToFEidUzenQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> For me, a Light version of CDI is clearly the features number. That's
>> why
>> >> I
>> >> don't see events in it.
>> >>
>> >> For me, a CDI Lite would just focus on DI. If CDI has @Produces and
>> Spring
>> >> has @Bean, then it's because 330 lakes this functionality.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> >> rmannibucau at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them up if it can
>> >> help:
>> >> >
>> >> > - binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is "Lite"
>> >> > - features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since you
>> >> almost
>> >> > always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be used -
>> >> check
>> >> > spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?
>> >> > - features complexity: sure we are not light here but supporting
>> scopes
>> >> > already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue
>> >> >
>> >> > So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec and spec can't
>> affect
>> >> > implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to me.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
>> >> > @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
>> >> > <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
>> >> > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
>> >> > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Tomitriber
>> >> > <http://www.tomitribe.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > 2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <
>> >> antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
>> >> > :
>> >> >
>> >> >> It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back in Java EE 6 where
>> he
>> >> >> forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much ;o)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency injection. The fact
>> that
>> >> CDI
>> >> >> can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it has
>> nothing
>> >> to
>> >> >> do with Light : it's the entire thing that can bootstrap in SE.
>> Good.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So what is Lite for you guys ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Antonio
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> >> >> rmannibucau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <john.d.ament at gmail.com>:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down runtime. It was
>> tried
>> >> >>>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most implementations
>> that
>> >> support
>> >> >>>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except for deprecated
>> >> stuff).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version will miss
>> >> events
>> >> >>> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro services from
>> >> >>> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be < 1M so not
>> sure
>> >> it
>> >> >>> would bring anything. Only important point is what Antoine started
>> to
>> >> do ie
>> >> >>> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and split in the
>> spec.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have a need for this.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> John
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves <
>> >> >>>> antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI Lite ? Are you sure
>> >> about
>> >> >>>>> events ?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330 that would have :
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - @Inject : already there
>> >> >>>>> - @Qualifier : already there
>> >> >>>>> -
>> >> >>>>> *Producers and disposers *
>> >> >>>>> -
>> >> >>>>> *Programatic lookup *
>> >> >>>>> - *Java SE Bootstrap*
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to propose a new EE profile
>> but
>> >> a
>> >> >>>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a subspec. If you put
>> events
>> >> >>>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in your point of
>> view ?
>> >> And
>> >> >>>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this ?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not having an
>> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then, CDIProvider could
>> >> extend
>> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all thing) ?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Antonio
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <
>> >> >>>>> antoine at sabot-durand.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first reason. We really should work
>> >> with
>> >> >>>>>> them to understand what should be added to CDI 2.0 to have it
>> as a
>> >> first
>> >> >>>>>> citizen DI in their spec.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms <
>> arjan.tijms at gmail.com>
>> >> a
>> >> >>>>>> ?crit :
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Antonio Goncalves
>> >> >>>>>>> <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> > I remember talking with the JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years ago
>> >> (back
>> >> >>>>>>> in EE6),
>> >> >>>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting CDI was "too heavy".
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> I can't find an exact reference anymore, but I somewhat
>> remember
>> >> that
>> >> >>>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply that CDI as a general
>> solution
>> >> >>>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while JAX-RS finished earlier and
>> had
>> >> all
>> >> >>>>>>> the work for their own DI solution already done.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> Antonio Goncalves
>> >> >>>>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
>> >> >>>>> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
>> >> >>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
>> >> >>>>> <
>> http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
>> >> | Paris
>> >> >>>>> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <
>> http://www.devoxx.fr
>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>>> cdi-dev mailing list
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>> >> >>>>>
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>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> cdi-dev mailing list
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>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Antonio Goncalves
>> >> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
>> >> >> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
>> >> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
>> >> >> <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
>> |
>> >> Paris
>> >> >> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr
>> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Antonio Goncalves
>> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
>> >>
>> >> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
>> >> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn <
>> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> |
>> >> Pluralsight
>> >> <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves> |
>> >> Paris
>> >> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
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