[cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite

Werner Keil werner.keil at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 15:20:17 EDT 2015 

Well if we found a way to offer some level of modularity and optionality
(despite SE or EE 8 not putting a strong emphasis on either yet) I would
certainly see it as an option. This could keep the size for some apps down
if they use other event systems already.

Werner

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:11 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org> wrote:

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>    1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:24 +0200
> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
> To: Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com>
> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CACLE=
> 7PgKRmCrKiN1+xxLvqCtm3V1AE8D3c7kz_1W_wp1fuxkw at mail.gmail.com>
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> 2015-08-30 20:29 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil at gmail.com>:
>
> > As there is well-established event handling on the SE and ME side, in
> most
> > cases based on java.util.EventObject, I could imagine CDI events being
> > either outside a "lite" profile or at least optional, should we consider
> > optionality.
> >
> >
> not sure I agree, SE has an event hierarchy but its listener model is not
> as usable as CDI most of the time because of the register side
>
>
> > Werner
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 6:10 PM, <cdi-dev-request at lists.jboss.org>
> wrote:
> >
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> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: cdi-dev Digest, Vol 57, Issue 33 (Romain Manni-Bucau)
> >>    2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Antonio Goncalves)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:09:41 +0200
> >> From: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
> >> To: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <CA+ZZq9-YFcTKuZr=+6v=
> >> wH-w670E++qgBrN36DsToFEidUzenQ at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> For me, a Light version of CDI is clearly the features number. That's
> why
> >> I
> >> don't see events in it.
> >>
> >> For me, a CDI Lite would just focus on DI. If CDI has @Produces and
> Spring
> >> has @Bean, then it's because 330 lakes this functionality.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> rmannibucau at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them up if it can
> >> help:
> >> >
> >> > - binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is "Lite"
> >> > - features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since you
> >> almost
> >> > always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be used -
> >> check
> >> > spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?
> >> > - features complexity: sure we are not light here but supporting
> scopes
> >> > already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue
> >> >
> >> > So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec and spec can't
> affect
> >> > implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to me.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> > @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> >> > <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >> > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >> > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Tomitriber
> >> > <http://www.tomitribe.com>
> >> >
> >> > 2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <
> >> antonio.goncalves at gmail.com>
> >> > :
> >> >
> >> >> It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back in Java EE 6 where
> he
> >> >> forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much  ;o)
> >> >>
> >> >> For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency injection. The fact that
> >> CDI
> >> >> can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it has
> nothing
> >> to
> >> >> do with Light : it's the entire thing that can bootstrap in SE. Good.
> >> >>
> >> >> So what is Lite for you guys ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Antonio
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> >> rmannibucau at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <john.d.ament at gmail.com>:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down runtime.  It was
> tried
> >> >>>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most implementations that
> >> support
> >> >>>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except for deprecated
> >> stuff).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version will miss
> >> events
> >> >>> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro services from
> >> >>> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be < 1M so not sure
> >> it
> >> >>> would bring anything. Only important point is what Antoine started
> to
> >> do ie
> >> >>> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and split in the
> spec.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have a need for this.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> John
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves <
> >> >>>> antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI Lite ? Are you sure
> >> about
> >> >>>>> events ?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330 that would have :
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>    - @Inject : already there
> >> >>>>>    - @Qualifier : already there
> >> >>>>>    -
> >> >>>>> *Producers and disposers *
> >> >>>>>    -
> >> >>>>> *Programatic lookup *
> >> >>>>>    - *Java SE Bootstrap*
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to propose a new EE profile
> but
> >> a
> >> >>>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a subspec. If you put
> events
> >> >>>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in your point of view
> ?
> >> And
> >> >>>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this ?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not having an
> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then, CDIProvider could
> >> extend
> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all thing) ?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Antonio
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine Sabot-Durand <
> >> >>>>> antoine at sabot-durand.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first reason. We really should work
> >> with
> >> >>>>>> them to understand what should be added to CDI 2.0 to have it as
> a
> >> first
> >> >>>>>> citizen DI in their spec.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms <arjan.tijms at gmail.com
> >
> >> a
> >> >>>>>> ?crit :
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Antonio Goncalves
> >> >>>>>>> <antonio.goncalves at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> > I remember talking with the JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years ago
> >> (back
> >> >>>>>>> in EE6),
> >> >>>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting CDI was "too heavy".
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I can't find an exact reference anymore, but I somewhat remember
> >> that
> >> >>>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply that CDI as a general
> solution
> >> >>>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while JAX-RS finished earlier and
> had
> >> all
> >> >>>>>>> the work for their own DI solution already done.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Antonio Goncalves
> >> >>>>> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> >> >>>>> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
> >> >>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
> >> >>>>> <
> http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
> >> | Paris
> >> >>>>> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <
> http://www.devoxx.fr
> >> >
> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>>> cdi-dev mailing list
> >> >>>>> cdi-dev at lists.jboss.org
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> >> >>>>>
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> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> >> >>
> >> >> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> >> >> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
> >> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
> >> >> <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
> |
> >> Paris
> >> >> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> >>
> >> Web site <http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> >> <http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn <
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> |
> >> Pluralsight
> >> <http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves> |
> >> Paris
> >> JUG <http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <http://www.devoxx.fr>
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