[hibernate-dev] ValidationMode

Steve Ebersole steve at hibernate.org
Mon Mar 4 11:25:36 EST 2013

persistence provider portability.

On Mon 04 Mar 2013 09:57:29 AM CST, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
> Applying validation at both levels has a few benefits:
> - DDL means that constraints are also applied to non Java apps or even
>    third party apps not using Bean Validation
> - applying the constraint during the CRUD events provides more
>    contextual exception reports, better than what we can do by converting
>    the DB exception.
> - constraints more elaborated don't have full counter-parts in DDL.
> At the time, I did find enhancing an existing property better than introducing a
> new one. I still do for what it's worth.
> Emmanuel
> On Mon 2013-03-04  8:01, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>> Partially.  What it also says is too perform double checking
>> (callback and db constraints) when BV is present.
>> I guess the reason you want to allow both is because we do not (and
>> really can not) convert all validations to db contraints.
>> My point is just that Set<ValidationMode> seems total overkill when
>> there is exactly (at best) one valid combination of options.  Could
>> more easily have been handled with using the JPA validation mode
>> setting as per spec (not our special treatment of it) *plus* a
>> custom setting that says to convert validations to ddl contraints
>> whenever possible.
>> On Mon 04 Mar 2013 07:53:34 AM CST, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>>> I don't follow you. It seems to make sense to me to have ddl and
>>> callback.
>>> It says validate entities on CRUD events, apply database generation in
>>> accordance to the constraints and raise an exception if BV is not
>>> present in the CP.
>>> On Mon 2013-03-04  7:36, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>> My concern is not the additional option.
>>>> My concern is the allowance of multiple selections.  The only combo
>>>> that ever even conceivably makes sense is "ddl" and "callback"
>>>> together.  But I am questioning how sensible it is really to have
>>>> those 2 together.  IMHO not much sense at all.
>>>> So IMO we ought to be deprecating the ability to have multiple
>>>> selections here.
>>>> On Mon 04 Mar 2013 07:21:26 AM CST, Emmanuel Bernard wrote:
>>>>> Our impl allow multiple choices to be able to add ddl as an additional
>>>>> behavior as it (was) not defined in the spec.
>>>>> And indeed, auto uses the degraded mode and callback forced BV to be
>>>>> used and raise an exception if it is not present. I can see apps deciding
>>>>> for one or the other.
>>>>> Emmanuel
>>>>> On Fri 2013-02-22 21:38, Hardy Ferentschik wrote:
>>>>>> On 22 Jan 2013, at 9:17 PM, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Kind of.  What I mean is that the HEM integration code is allowing Set <ValidationMode>.  So our impl allows a value like "auto, ddl" or other combos.  I am not able to grok why we allow multiples.
>>>>>> I think this is a Hibernate specific "feature" to support also ddl generation. The idea is to say something like "callback,ddl" to enable validation and application of DDL constraints.
>>>>>> Emmanuel might know more. With JPA 2.1 and the DDL stuff part of the spec I would assume there are are other explicit options to enable/disable these features.
>>>>>>> Also auto and callback are slightly different.  callback causes an error if no bv provider is available whereas auto then skips validation.
>>>>>> Hmm, seems wrong indeed, but maybe that's the difference in the end. Looking at " Enabling Automatic Validation" of the spec for the auto mode it is not explicitly mentioned
>>>>>> that an exception should be thrown whereas for callback it is. Whether this is international or just badly written I don't know. Maybe something to clarify in the spec.
>>>>>> Don't we have someone in the JPA expert group ;-)
>>>>>> --Hardy
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