[hibernate-dev] [ORM] Reducing startup log verbosity

[Sanne Grinovero]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 16:39, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
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> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:15 AM Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org> wrote:
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>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 01:44, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:
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>> > I disagree that logging a single message is a better solution because that probably ends up wrapping multiple lines, just as your sample happened to do in the email.  IMO that is actually more difficult to read.
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>> Ok keep it in one line if you prefer. No strong preference on how it's
>> presented, but I think it's a big mistake to hide essential
>> diagnostics: "paste the logs" is often useful when helping someone; it
>> gets much harder if you first have to change categories.
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> You are combining separate things here....
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> First, *you* are the one that suggested doing it on one line unless I have misunderstood.  My point is simply that practically speaking that will either mean having to read wrapped lines (eww) or scroll horizontally (double eww) to read this info.  If your desire is to continue present this information anyway, then, well, what exactly are we changing?  Just making it harder to read?

I wasn't implying it would necessarily wrap on multiple lines. Not
suggesting to add a ton of information, but a careful selection - if
we take my example literally that should fit in "most" defintions of
lines, especially as it's shorter than many other messages we produce.

> "Diagnostics".. interesting choice of word... if you are diagnosing something that implies that there is a problem you are debugging...  but here we are talking about boot-time informational logging.  Different beasts.

Fair enough; I don't agree but happy to follow your guidance.

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> If the distinction you are trying to make is that we want to see at a glance what config Hibernate thinks it just processed versus what you think it should be (was caching enabled, etc) - well, where do you draw the line?  Because this gets back to my first point; if you log everything that is "useful" in this single boot-time log message it is going to be completely unreadable.

Sure; I just meant we should always log:
 - Hibernate's version
 - Dialect choice

And possibly also:
 - Transaction mode
 - If caching is enabled (especially as I have in mind a proposal to
have 2LC and query caching enabled by default: not to sidetrack this
conversation now but that's where I was coming from)

That's just four pieces of information which we could try to show by
default; I understand it's not much and not enough to diagnose many
problems, but it felt like a good balance to me as it's useful to have
some basics logged by default as a starting point. No strong feeling
though, so if you disagree.. you're the lead and that's it.

Thanks,
Sanne

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>> +1 those symbolic loggers are a great idea. But then please don't hide
>> this information at least until we have those easier logger
>> categories: Guillaume is set to patch 5.4x - which doesn't have them
>> yet.
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> What I am doing in 6 has no bearing on this discussion.  Either we display information or we don't - that is the crux of this discussion, not which logger/category name we use.
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