[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

[Andrig Miller]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Burke" <bburke at redhat.com>
> To: "Jason T. Greene" <jason.greene at redhat.com>
> Cc: "Andrig Miller" <anmiller at redhat.com>, "JBoss AS7 Development" <jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:32:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/6/12 5:02 PM, Jason T. Greene wrote:
> > On 6/6/12 3:43 PM, Andrig Miller wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not sure we have to have these discussions over and over and
> >> over
> >> again. From my perspective, performance being my primary concern,
> >> JBoss logging has been awesome, and it meets all the companies
> >> requirements. I haven't been able to put an exact percentage on it
> >> yet, but the use of JBoss logging has improved throughput on all
> >> the
> >> workloads I have tested, that is for sure.
> >>
> 
> The performance gains you are seeing are from not doing stupid things
> which are pretty easy to avoid.  i.e. not doing string concatenations
> when your logging level isn't triggered.
> 

That's only part of it.  The design overall is much better from a performance perspective too.  You can still use it poorly and have performance issues, as with anything.

> >> If we continue to pollute the code base with different logging
> >> frameworks, a lot of those gains could start to disappear. Besides
> >> the fact, that we are about to ship a product in multiple
> >> languages
> >> for the first time, and we have to continue to finish the work we
> >> started.
> >>
> >> Is is all that difficult to adopt JBoss logging? This all seems
> >> counter productive.
> >
> > Right I think we need to know why it needs to be abstracted. What
> > is
> > missing from jboss logging that requires RESTEasy to have an
> > abstraction? Once we know the answer to that question, we can
> > either add
> > whatever the missing thing is, or recommend how to go about
> > building
> > something custom with similar perf characteristics (if the advice
> > is
> > even wanted).
> >
> 
> The reasons are simple:  I don't want a *hard* dependency on yet
> another
> logging abstraction within my codebase.  I really don't want to write
> a
> logging abstraction, I just want to have a tiny level of indirection
> so
> that I'm not dependent on any one of them.  You don't think I have
> any
> right to be a little frustrated that I can't do this tiny level of
> indirection and that I have to use a full-blown code generation
> framework just to do logging?  You don't think it is even a little
> bit
> ridiculous that you are requiring code generation just to do logging?
> Come on guys...
> 
> You asked what's missing from JBoss Logging, I'll reiterate more
> completely:
> 
> void info(String messageID, Object... params);
> void trace(String messageID, Object... params);
> void error(String messageID, Object... params);
> 
> String getMessage(String messageID, Object... params);
> MessageFormat getMessageFormat(String messageID);
> 
> Simple as that.  You can whine about the performance implications all
> you want but, IMO, if you do a log-level check before you lookup the
> message, it shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> BTW, nobody answered my previous question, @MessageBundle is fine to
> use?  Our translation teams know how to handle them?  Considering you
> think JBoss Logging is already perfect, I'm guessing I'll have to
> revert
> to using reflection calls on @MessageBundle if I want to keep my
> delegation logger.
> 
> P.S. BTW Jason, I did comment multiple times on TAG-3 years ago.  I'd
> be
> happy to forward the emails.  What I said then was:  I don't want to
> be
> dependent on yet another logging abstraction and questioned why we
> were
> spending so many engineering hours on one.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Bill Burke
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> http://bill.burkecentral.com
> 

I'm not sure why you don't want a hard dependency on the logging framework, and why that is so important.  As I see it, the only way RestEasy makes any money for us is in EAP, so what's the big deal about having a hard dependency on jboss logging?  Is it that you vision RestEasy to be used in other containers too?  If so, is it happening in the community?  It certainly won't happen with paying customers.

Andy