[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

[Max Rydahl Andersen]

btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall 
seeing anything better....

On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:

> Hi Bill/David,
> 
> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
> 
> Static vs non-static logging:
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
> 
> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
> 
> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
> 
> Performance:
> -------------------
> 
> Jason and David aren't full of shit here. 
> 
> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
> 
> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
> 
> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
> 
> Usability:
> -------------
> 
> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor. 
> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
> 
> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :) 
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
> are just using maven and vi.
> 
> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
> 
> /max
> 
> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>> about this.
>>> 
>>> :-D
>>> 
>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>> argument though.
>>> 
>> 
>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but 
>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>> 
>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner 
>> and run with it...
>> 
>> -- 
>> Bill Burke
>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> 
> 
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