[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

[Emmanuel Bernard]

That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements. 

See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions. 

On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen <max.andersen at redhat.com> wrote:

> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall 
> seeing anything better....
> 
> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bill/David,
>> 
>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>> 
>> Static vs non-static logging:
>> -------------------------------------
>> 
>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>> 
>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>> 
>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>> 
>> Performance:
>> -------------------
>> 
>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here. 
>> 
>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>> 
>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>> 
>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>> 
>> Usability:
>> -------------
>> 
>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor. 
>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>> 
>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :) 
>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>> are just using maven and vi.
>> 
>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>> 
>> /max
>> 
>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>> about this.
>>>> 
>>>> :-D
>>>> 
>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>> argument though.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but 
>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>> 
>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner 
>>> and run with it...
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Bill Burke
>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev