[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

Sat Jun 9 10:27:15 EDT 2012

Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual 
logging.  Sigh...

So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary 
dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string 
constants based on included localization property files...

BUT...

There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the 
message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id:

     public final String jbossLoggingSucks() {
         String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+ 
jbossLoggingSucks$str());
         return result;
     }

When you fix that, let me know.

On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>
>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements.
>>
>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions.
>
> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only
> truly shared ones out in common.
>
> It's all a balance act.
>
> /max
>
>>
>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen <max.andersen at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall
>>> seeing anything better....
>>>
>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Bill/David,
>>>>
>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>>>>
>>>> Static vs non-static logging:
>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>>>>
>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>>>>
>>>> Performance:
>>>> -------------------
>>>>
>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here.
>>>>
>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>>>>
>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>>>>
>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>>>>
>>>> Usability:
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor.
>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>>>>
>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :)
>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>>>> are just using maven and vi.
>>>>
>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>>>>
>>>> /max
>>>>
>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>>>> about this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>>>> argument though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but
>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>>>>
>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner
>>>>> and run with it...
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Bill Burke
>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>

-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com