[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

[Max Rydahl Andersen]

> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements. 
> 
> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions. 

Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only
truly shared ones out in common.

It's all a balance act.

/max
 
> 
> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen <max.andersen at redhat.com> wrote:
> 
>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall 
>> seeing anything better....
>> 
>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Bill/David,
>>> 
>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>>> 
>>> Static vs non-static logging:
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>>> 
>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>>> 
>>> Performance:
>>> -------------------
>>> 
>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here. 
>>> 
>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>>> 
>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>>> 
>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>>> 
>>> Usability:
>>> -------------
>>> 
>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor. 
>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>>> 
>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :) 
>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>>> are just using maven and vi.
>>> 
>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>>> 
>>> /max
>>> 
>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>>> about this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> :-D
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>>> argument though.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but 
>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>>> 
>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner 
>>>> and run with it...
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Bill Burke
>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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