[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

Sat Jun 9 11:12:05 EDT 2012

Not gonna bother filing a bug, because I ain't gonna use it.

On 6/9/12 10:58 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
> File bugs here: http://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL
>
> On 06/09/2012 09:27 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual
>> logging.  Sigh...
>>
>> So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary
>> dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string
>> constants based on included localization property files...
>>
>> BUT...
>>
>> There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the
>> message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id:
>>
>>        public final String jbossLoggingSucks() {
>>            String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+
>> jbossLoggingSucks$str());
>>            return result;
>>        }
>>
>> When you fix that, let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements.
>>>>
>>>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
>>>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions.
>>>
>>> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only
>>> truly shared ones out in common.
>>>
>>> It's all a balance act.
>>>
>>> /max
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen<max.andersen at redhat.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
>>>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall
>>>>> seeing anything better....
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bill/David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>>>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Static vs non-static logging:
>>>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>>>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>>>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>>>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>>>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Performance:
>>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>>>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usability:
>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor.
>>>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>>>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :)
>>>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>>>>>> are just using maven and vi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /max
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>>>>>> about this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>>>>>> argument though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but
>>>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner
>>>>>>> and run with it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Bill Burke
>>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com