[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

Sat Jun 9 11:26:06 EDT 2012

Yet you'll expend 10x the effort bitching and moaning?  That seems 
incongruous to me.

On 06/09/2012 10:12 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Not gonna bother filing a bug, because I ain't gonna use it.
>
> On 6/9/12 10:58 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>> File bugs here: http://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL
>>
>> On 06/09/2012 09:27 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>> Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual
>>> logging.  Sigh...
>>>
>>> So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary
>>> dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string
>>> constants based on included localization property files...
>>>
>>> BUT...
>>>
>>> There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the
>>> message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id:
>>>
>>>         public final String jbossLoggingSucks() {
>>>             String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+
>>> jbossLoggingSucks$str());
>>>             return result;
>>>         }
>>>
>>> When you fix that, let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
>>>>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only
>>>> truly shared ones out in common.
>>>>
>>>> It's all a balance act.
>>>>
>>>> /max
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen<max.andersen at redhat.com>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
>>>>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall
>>>>>> seeing anything better....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Bill/David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>>>>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Static vs non-static logging:
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>>>>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>>>>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>>>>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>>>>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Performance:
>>>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>>>>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usability:
>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor.
>>>>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>>>>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :)
>>>>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>>>>>>> are just using maven and vi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /max
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>>>>>>> about this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> :-D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>>>>>>> argument though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but
>>>>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner
>>>>>>>> and run with it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Bill Burke
>>>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
- DML