[jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

Sat Jun 9 12:23:33 EDT 2012

LMAO.  You suck!  Have a good weekend.

On 6/9/12 11:39 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
> Wow, you suddenly changed your mind and filed
> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-52 - great!  Thanks :D :D :D
>
> On 06/09/2012 10:36 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> I'll rephrase that...Being a dick requires no effort from me. :)
>>
>> On 6/9/12 11:33 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>> Yes, I'll spend 10x the effort just to be a dick :)
>>>
>>> On 6/9/12 11:26 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>> Yet you'll expend 10x the effort bitching and moaning?  That seems
>>>> incongruous to me.
>>>>
>>>> On 06/09/2012 10:12 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>> Not gonna bother filing a bug, because I ain't gonna use it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/9/12 10:58 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>> File bugs here: http://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/09/2012 09:27 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual
>>>>>>> logging.  Sigh...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary
>>>>>>> dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string
>>>>>>> constants based on included localization property files...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BUT...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the
>>>>>>> message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             public final String jbossLoggingSucks() {
>>>>>>>                 String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+
>>>>>>> jbossLoggingSucks$str());
>>>>>>>                 return result;
>>>>>>>             }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you fix that, let me know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D
>>>>>>>>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only
>>>>>>>> truly shared ones out in common.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's all a balance act.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /max
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen<max.andersen at redhat.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but
>>>>>>>>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall
>>>>>>>>>> seeing anything better....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bill/David,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but
>>>>>>>>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Static vs non-static logging:
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*;
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with
>>>>>>>>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like
>>>>>>>>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that
>>>>>>>>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Performance:
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled.  That was before string concatenation gets into play.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they
>>>>>>>>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Usability:
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor.
>>>>>>>>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :)
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you
>>>>>>>>>>> are just using maven and vi.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /max
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything.  I do love a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh thank god!  I love a good argument too!  I don't know about you, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways.  Hopefully Jim can take the banner
>>>>>>>>>>>> and run with it...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Burke
>>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com