[jboss-user] [JBoss jBPM] - Re: JBPM WITHOUT the starter kit

kukeltje do-not-reply at jboss.com
Fri Mar 16 12:54:27 EDT 2007

Sorry, small error (and no preview... sorry) new post

"markricard" wrote : Sure I will respond.
"markricard" wrote : 
  | "did you look at the docs? If yes, did you find or mis relevant info in there "
  | Yes, I looked in the docs.   Could not get it to work.   Docs in general (even outside of JBoss) are almost never reliable.
Often because people do not put versionnumbers in there 'howtos' (a 3.0 installation procedure does not work on 3.2), therefor we in the forum always ask for versionnumbers. Not only for us to use, but also for future reference.

"markricard" wrote : 
  | "did you search the forum? If yes, did you find or mis relevant info in there "
  | Yes.  Almost all of the posts from people involve using the starter kit that we found.  (Examples below)We are aware that the search functionality in the forum is somewhat unreliable, but the question is asked often enough...people using it without the starterkit"markricard" wrote : 
  | "did you look at the wiki? If yes, did you find or mis relevant info in there"
  | Yes.  The wiki typically contains copy and paste info from the docs.

I do not agree, but the info there could be better...

"markricard" wrote : 
  | Take a look at the following post:
  | http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=74781
  | Asked the same question I have at the end and there was no response from Jan 15th.
  | The original question was from early last year. just an example..... some real newbe (maybe even java newbies in there)"markricard" wrote : 
  | Then look at this post:
  | http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&t=96443
  | You are supposed to do a "diff"?   Really?  Seems very "hacky" to me.  And the post died there so you don't know if that worked or not.
Yes, since lots of people have their own security config. It is provided as a working example. In 2.0 it was also there, in 3.0 removed since so many people did not (d not?) understand how to configure j2ee authentication "markricard" wrote : 
  | jBPM seems like quite the hog.
  | don't agree here either. We get lots of positive comments from users. There might be a (in fact there is a huge) difference in the knowledgelevel of users, we can't satisfy all at the moment and a certain level of java and j2ee knowledge is required."markricard" wrote : 
  | Take a look at YAWL.  (http://yawlfoundation.org/index.php) I was able to setup the workflow engine in about 15 minutes - and it has all of the functionality that jBPM does without the bloat of having to run in JBoss.
Right, with async actions, clustering, ejb, jms......  "markricard" wrote : 
  | In addition, we actually pay for support from JBoss.  And many times our questions take a long time to get answered - or are answered as if we were developing JBoss core code ourselves - which we are not.    That is something I cannot comment on because I do not work for JBoss and this forum is mainly support by volunteers"markricard" wrote : 
  | Frankly, we feel (all 5 of us)  that the answering of questions has gotten worse lately - In the forum? "markricard" wrote : perhaps because there are so few of you and so many more of us.  (compared to 2 or 3 years ago)In the forum there are certainly a lot more noobs than before, taking up way to much of my scarce spare time 

Personally, and I do not want to offend you, the minimal knowledge people should have to start using jbpm (or any other opensource project) is to get it up and running on their own appserver (especially if it is jboss). Or get to a point where they get very specific errors. They should know how to post supportrequests in this forum (e.g. know how to read a stacktrace, the one in the screen by tomcat often is not enough and it says that in the bottom).

If other (beginners) help eachother out (a new forum?) that leaves more time for me, other advanced user and the core developers to answer the more complex questions. 

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