[seam-dev] Re: Adding a security audit to the Seam QA (release) process

[Pete Muir]

On 22 Oct 2008, at 12:05, Anil Saldhana wrote:

> Shane Bryzak wrote:
>> Rodney Russ wrote:
>>> Pete Muir wrote:
>>>> Marc, Christian, Jay and I met and discussed this. Here is the  
>>>> outcome:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Create a wiki page and list out the "top ten" web security  
>>>> problems. This page should list not actual exploits, but the  
>>>> underlying problems (for example XSS and XSRF). This page will  
>>>> also link to good resources describing the problem, and common  
>>>> solutions. Christian and Marc will collaborate to build this page.
>>> Any reason why we wouldn't look to existing lists for the top web  
>>> application exploits in the "wild"?  For example:
>>>
>>> * The OWASP top ten:  http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2007
>>> * The Web Application Security Consortium's Threat  
>>> Classification:  http://www.webappsec.org/projects/threat/

Agreed, I hope this is part of the research that Marc and Christian  
will do :-)

>>>
>>
>> I took a look at both of these, I especially liked the second one  
>> (WASC) as they provide a PDF document containing details of known  
>> attack types broken down by class (authentication, authorization,  
>> client-side, command-execution, information disclosure, and logical  
>> attacks).  I would ultimately like to see a table detailing how  
>> Seam addresses each of these vulnerabilities, and I think an  
>> additional chapter in the docs as Pete suggested would be the best  
>> place for this (item 4 in the task list).  The great thing about  
>> the WASC document was that it gave clear examples of how each of  
>> the exploits worked -  I think we need to work the same kind of  
>> explanations into the documentation also.  For example, rather than  
>> just say 'this is how Seam is secure against session fixation  
>> attacks' we actually explain what a session fixation attack is.

Or if we can get a permalink to a good resource....

BTW Dan is going to coordinate (2) and (4)

>>
> Both OWASP and webappsec are the results of Jeremiah Grossman, CEO  
> of Whitehat Security.  So they will have the same contents.  You can  
> combine them to get the list. :)
>
> I agree with Shane that we need to explain the vulnerabilities in  
> addition to listing them.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Create a second wiki page to discuss how these problems affect  
>>>> the various points at which Seam is exposed (e.g. JSF, Wicket,  
>>>> remoting), the resources collected for (1) can be used to  
>>>> identify and help close any holes. Currently there is no-one  
>>>> leading this effort.
>>>>
>>>> 3) At release time QA will run through the list from (1) and  
>>>> identify if there are any new features added to Seam which could  
>>>> be affected. If there are, and the developer has not documented  
>>>> them on (2), QA will discuss the problem with the developer. Jay/ 
>>>> QA to lead.
>>>>
>>>> 4) Building out a "Securing your application" chapter and tools  
>>>> which Seam users can follow to secure their application built  
>>>> using Seam. An example of this is provide a tool which can  
>>>> generate a unique token to prevent XSRF attacks. Currently there  
>>>> is no one leading this, but the same person as (2) should own it  
>>>> IMO.
>>>>
>>>> If someone would like to volunteer for (2) & (4) who has an  
>>>> interest in security, that would be great :-)
>>>>
>>>> We also discussed the process for dealing with found exploits:
>>>>
>>>> 1) We already tell people to email security at jboss.org with any  
>>>> suspected problems.
>>>>
>>>> 2) We need to publish the response policy, probably on jboss.org.  
>>>> Christian will talk to Anil about publishing this, and the jboss  
>>>> advisory list info.
>>>>
>>>> 3) It is at the discretion of the JBoss Security Response Team to  
>>>> decide whether to embargo an issue, and discuss just with a  
>>>> developer, and not make it public until there is a release or  
>>>> whether the issue is more general and should be discussed on seam-dev at lists.jboss.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Oct 2008, at 11:55, Pete Muir wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marc,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds great. I'm in the UK, so GMT+1 atm. Christian, will you  
>>>>> join us to discuss?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6 Oct 2008, at 11:13, Marc Schoenefeld wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pete,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that sounds like a good plan, let's schedule some initial  
>>>>>> planning for
>>>>>> next week, because this week I am quite busy with after-PTO  
>>>>>> workload
>>>>>> and SOA testing. How about next tuesday? BTW, which timezone  
>>>>>> are you
>>>>>> in,  maybe we can start with a phone chat?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first things that come into my mind are JSF view state  
>>>>>> injection,
>>>>>> XSS in all different kinds, remoting misuse, insecure servlet  
>>>>>> mappings.
>>>>>> During this week I will catch with the current Seam codebase by
>>>>>> findbugs-ing through it, and maybe already stumble over the one  
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> other place to start poking into.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete Muir wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Marc,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something that we've been discussing is the idea creating a  
>>>>>>> security
>>>>>>> audit checklist that will cover Seam and the ways it interacts  
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the outside world; initially, we want to focus on JSF, Seam  
>>>>>>> Remoting
>>>>>>> (Ajax) and Servlet but we will also consider adding in WS  
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> JAX-RS, Wicket, GWT and perhaps others, though these are what  
>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>> think off. This checklist would then be added to the Seam QA  
>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>> (which is run through at release time).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We were wondering if you would be able to work with us on  
>>>>>>> this? My
>>>>>>> suggestion is, that as you (I hope ;-) have a good  
>>>>>>> understanding of
>>>>>>> the general approaches that could be used to exploit a Seam  
>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>> would be to work with us both on an initial list of areas to  
>>>>>>> focus on,
>>>>>>> and then help us develop the checklist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let us know :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Marc Schoenefeld / Red Hat Security Response Team
>>>>>>
>