[jboss-dev] My logging ultimatum

[Adrian Brock]

On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 11:57 -0600, David M. Lloyd wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:06:04 +0100
> Adrian Brock <abrock at redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 16:01 +0000, Tim Fox wrote:
> > > Huh? How is using JDK logging NIH syndrome? Seems the complete opposite.
> > > 
> > > Surely writing your own (jboss common logging) is NIH?
> > 
> > Read the discussion. 
> > 
> > The proposal is to replace a 16k jar (that uses a simple
> > wrapper mechanism) with the following:
> 
> Well, not exactly.  Read my other mail for the actual changes I am
> proposing...
> 

But your proposal is for the appserver to do lots work
for what I will describe again as little more than a
aesthetic reason.

Quite frankly we've got better things to spend are
time on than writing, testing and supporting
a JUL->log4j adapter - even if it was technically possible
e.g. weaving all your classes that do Logger.getLogger()
to replace the implementation.

> > 5) Get Sun to fix/backport their bugs so we don't
> > have to use log4j (zero jar dependency logging)
> 
> Fix bugs yes - I don't really care if we use log4j in the appserver
> though.  That's Scott's thing.  I just think we *shouldn't* be using log
> facades in otherwise independent projects.
> 

This is the part of the argument you just don't seem to be getting.

Just because you don't want to use a very simple facade,
others are forced to jump through hoops with more complicated
facades or accept a less than optimal solution.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
There's just no convincing some people.

Either you're not seeing the whole/bigger picture 
"simple wrapper for you versus pain for some/everybody else"

or

"You cannot argue somebody out of a position using reason
if they never reasoned themselves into it in the
first place" :-)

> - DML
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Adrian Brock
Chief Scientist
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
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