[jboss-dev] hibernate 3.3.0 upgrade, slf4j introduction into jbossas

Steve Ebersole steve at hibernate.org
Mon May 5 11:27:58 EDT 2008 

OMG, did you just chastize me for the same exact thing y'all are doing?

On May 5, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Bill Burke wrote:

> Shame on Steve for introducing yet another logging framework.  All  
> you're gonna do is piss off every JBoss AS user that wants to debug  
> Hibernate and has to figure out shitLog4j.
>
> I hate to single you out, but this is another example of the ivory  
> tower, silo development we have at JBoss where nobody cares about  
> how they fit into the bigger picture.  The world if bigger than  
> Hibernate.
>
> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging  
>> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some  
>> don't - so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in  
>> the appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still  
>> didn't have a solution to the problem.
>> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas  
>> core?  If so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
>> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different  
>> configurations on a per-deployment basis?  I am under the  
>> impression that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the  
>> details yet.
>> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine  
>> there's probably users out there who want to use their own logging  
>> framework and configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd  
>> need a way to support that - maybe just by detecting the presence  
>> of a logging implementation in the deployment or something.
>> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging  
>> configuration formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging  
>> configuration into a bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging  
>> API to acquire and configure Logger and Handler instances, rather  
>> than try to use the stupid properties system that the default  
>> LogManager uses.
>> - DML
>> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply  
>>> move to the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers  
>>> based on the log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously  
>>> looking at this problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we  
>>> could always use jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas  
>>> core, but that does not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>>
>>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in  
>>> is by rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current  
>>> jbossas implementation if that is desired. The problem always is  
>>> whether the logging in question is part of a user application, or  
>>> a jbossas framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the  
>>> server frameworks and other frameworks wanting to integrate with  
>>> the server logs having a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>>
>>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>>
>>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a  
>>>> pretty heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>>
>>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going  
>>>> to use the frameworks they're going to use.  How much effort is  
>>>> it to adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting  
>>>> technical dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding  
>>>> another API facade?  It seems like the microcontainer arch would  
>>>> be perfectly suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging  
>>>> API.
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in JBossAS/ 
>>>> JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what logging  
>>>> frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>>
>>>> - DML
>>>>
>>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>>> - https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain  
>>>>> deployments as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to 'clean-up'  
>>>>> logging?
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response.  The original  
>>>>>> thread was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived.  I  
>>>>>> let that frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of  
>>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house.  Y'all  
>>>>>>> have you're own logging framework, great, add it to the other  
>>>>>>> 50 out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first and  
>>>>>>> foremost a standalone library.  And in terms of integration, I  
>>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers.  I'm sure  
>>>>>>> they all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another logging api'  
>>>>>>> in their environments as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific  
>>>>>>> problem that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using jboss-logging  
>>>>>>> in environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping  
>>>>>>> with the general theme of that thread) got no replies to the  
>>>>>>> question asked: http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very list almost a  
>>>>>>>>> year ago ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and Steve's request.  I  
>>>>>>>>>> can switch it back to the old version if that's what is  
>>>>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in jbossas trunk, and  
>>>>>>>>>>> why is this pulling in yet another logging framework? This  
>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be reverted, and why there has to be yet another  
>>>>>>>>>>> logging framework dependency brought in explained.
>>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>>> vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/ 
>>>>>>>>>>> cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear ->  
>>>>>>>>>>> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>
> -- 
> Bill Burke
> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
> http://bill.burkecentral.com
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-----------------------------
Steve Ebersole

Project Lead
http://hibernate.org
steve at hibernate.org

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