[jboss-dev] hibernate 3.3.0 upgrade, slf4j introduction into jbossas

Bill Burke bburke at redhat.com
Mon May 5 12:29:33 EDT 2008 

JBoss logging module has been around for 7 years.... So I don't know WTF 
you're talking about...

Steve Ebersole wrote:
> OMG, did you just chastize me for the same exact thing y'all are doing?
> 
> On May 5, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> 
>> Shame on Steve for introducing yet another logging framework.  All 
>> you're gonna do is piss off every JBoss AS user that wants to debug 
>> Hibernate and has to figure out shitLog4j.
>>
>> I hate to single you out, but this is another example of the ivory 
>> tower, silo development we have at JBoss where nobody cares about how 
>> they fit into the bigger picture.  The world if bigger than Hibernate.
>>
>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>> I'm a bit hazy on the details but I understand that some logging 
>>> frameworks allow you to subclass a base logger class, and some don't 
>>> - so if you do so it's really difficult to properly weave in the 
>>> appropriate substitution. Last time I heard, Trustin still didn't 
>>> have a solution to the problem.
>>> Have you already made the switch to JDK logging in the jbossas core?  
>>> If so, is there a sensible LogManager yet?
>>> Also, do we need to do anything funky like support different 
>>> configurations on a per-deployment basis?  I am under the impression 
>>> that Glassfish does this, but I haven't figured out the details yet.
>>> For configurations, I get what you're saying - though I imagine 
>>> there's probably users out there who want to use their own logging 
>>> framework and configuration in certain deployments, so I think we'd 
>>> need a way to support that - maybe just by detecting the presence of 
>>> a logging implementation in the deployment or something.
>>> Otherwise, based on what I know of the various logging configuration 
>>> formats, we could probably just rewrite the logging configuration 
>>> into a bean deployment that just uses the JDK logging API to acquire 
>>> and configure Logger and Handler instances, rather than try to use 
>>> the stupid properties system that the default LogManager uses.
>>> - DML
>>> On 05/04/2008 02:42 PM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>> All that I can recall as a reasonable compromise was to simply move 
>>>> to the jdk logging with the replacement logging handlers based on 
>>>> the log4j type of appenders I ported over when previously looking at 
>>>> this problem. Trustin has since introduced log2log, we could always 
>>>> use jboss retro to map framework X onto the jbossas core, but that 
>>>> does not cover the framwork X configuration files.
>>>>
>>>> How I can see the mc and jbossas deployment framework fitting in is 
>>>> by rewriting the logging system X config files onto the current 
>>>> jbossas implementation if that is desired. The problem always is 
>>>> whether the logging in question is part of a user application, or a 
>>>> jbossas framework. In reality I only see jdk logging for the server 
>>>> frameworks and other frameworks wanting to integrate with the server 
>>>> logs having a jdk logger option, or an adaptor.
>>>>
>>>> What are the log2log issues showing up?
>>>>
>>>> David M. Lloyd wrote:
>>>>> Well, that's a good project, but bytecode weaving seems like a 
>>>>> pretty heavy-duty solution to a simple problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic problem is, people (within JBoss and without) are going 
>>>>> to use the frameworks they're going to use.  How much effort is it 
>>>>> to adapt log2log (which has already run into some interesting 
>>>>> technical dilemmas) to another framework, versus just adding 
>>>>> another API facade?  It seems like the microcontainer arch would be 
>>>>> perfectly suited towards auto-wiring the appropriate logging API.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't it be nice if we could say, "deploy your app in 
>>>>> JBossAS/JBossMC and it will *just work*, regardless of what logging 
>>>>> frameworks are being used by what"?
>>>>>
>>>>> - DML
>>>>>
>>>>> On 05/02/2008 01:41 PM, Ales Justin wrote:
>>>>>> What about if we used this:
>>>>>> - https://svn.jboss.org/repos/log2log/trunk
>>>>>> with-in one of our deployers, and you could mark certain 
>>>>>> deployments as being 'dragged' through Log2Log to 'clean-up' logging?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>> I apologize for the tone in my last response.  The original 
>>>>>>> thread was frustrating enough, and here it is being relived.  I 
>>>>>>> let that frustration get to me when I should not have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I cannot help that AS seems to think that every piece of 
>>>>>>>> technology needs to be complete re-written in house.  Y'all have 
>>>>>>>> you're own logging framework, great, add it to the other 50 out 
>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The part that you are missing is that Hibernate is first and 
>>>>>>>> foremost a standalone library.  And in terms of integration, I 
>>>>>>>> have to consider integration with many containers.  I'm sure 
>>>>>>>> they all want jboss-logging as the 'yet another logging api' in 
>>>>>>>> their environments as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I used to use commons-logging which had a very specific problem 
>>>>>>>> that slf4j solves in a unique way *on any platform*...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you recall, I asked about experiences using jboss-logging in 
>>>>>>>> environments other than within JBoss AS and (in keeping with the 
>>>>>>>> general theme of that thread) got no replies to the question 
>>>>>>>> asked: 
>>>>>>>> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/jboss-development/2007-July/010398.html 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And we said sure, introduce yet another logging api?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I initiated that very discussion on this very list almost a 
>>>>>>>>>> year ago ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 2, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Paul Gier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I upgraded this based on JBAS-5133 and Steve's request.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>> can switch it back to the old version if that's what is needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Stark wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why was hibernate updated to 3.3.0 in jbossas trunk, and why 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is this pulling in yet another logging framework? This needs 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be reverted, and why there has to be yet another logging 
>>>>>>>>>>>> framework dependency brought in explained.
>>>>>>>>>>>> *** CONTEXTS IN ERROR: Name -> Error
>>>>>>>>>>>> vfsfile:/media/disk/workspace/tck5/jboss-5.0.0.CR1/server/cts/tmp/jsr88/ejb3_annotations_entity_vehicles.ear 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/slf4j/LoggerFactory
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>>> Steve Ebersole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Project Lead
>>>>>>> http://hibernate.org
>>>>>>> steve at hibernate.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Bill Burke
>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat
>> http://bill.burkecentral.com
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development
> 
> 
> -----------------------------
> Steve Ebersole
> 
> Project Lead
> http://hibernate.org
> steve at hibernate.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> jboss-development at lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-development

-- 
Bill Burke
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://bill.burkecentral.com

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