[hibernate-dev] Stride

[Steve Ebersole]

You can't "do your job" without yet another way to get notified of CI job
status?  I'm confused - did Jenkins remove all of its other forms of
notification?  ;)  Seriously though,  I've never understood this desire to
have yet another communications "inbox" spammed by automated notifications
- and its even worse in Hip Cat because I can never hide them.  So it is
hard for me to incorporate this into the argument against moving.

Y'all really wanted to move to Hip Chat in the first place even though to
me it always felt (and feels) half-baked itself.  When you have a
communications client that does not even have a working install for the OS
well over half the team using it uses... well, to me that is far bigger
problem than not having a 13th way to see Jenkins notifications ;)  And if
the web client is as good as the native client, I assume you use the web
client instead?

So to me it really comes down to what are the blockers to not making this
move now.  So far I hear:

   1. No Jenkins notifications - see above
   2. Guest access - meh - If having to have an account to join the
   discussion is bad then we should immediately make our forums
   guest-accessible again as well ;)
   3. There may be better options out there - at some point can we just
   pick one and use it?  Is one "inbox" really that much better than another
   "inbox"?  And clearly I am not even tied to Hip Chat - I was one of the
   people wanting to not move there.  Radim, what makes Zulip so amazing?
   4. "Coordination tool"?  Not really sure what this one is about.  Is
   this back to Jenkins notifications?  If you mean a communications tool, of
   course it works.  They are largely the same.  Andrea, Sanne and I have
   played with it, so we in fact do have some idea if it will (spoiler: it
   does)
   5. We should go where WildFly goes (?).

The bottom line is that this is the way Atlassian is going.  Hip Chat is
beyond deprecated - to the point where they won't even fix the smallest of
bugs like the RPM package even though Red Hat employees spent hours doing
all the work for them in terms of investigation and solution.  They
literally just need to add the suggested RPM metadata changes.  But they
wont.  That tells you all you need to know.



On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 4:23 AM Guillaume Smet <guillaume.smet at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Sanne Grinovero <sanne at hibernate.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Steve pointed out multiple flaws e.g. the native client packaging
>> broken on Fedora, to which Atlassian pretty much replied by letting us
>> know they won't invest in HipChat as the future is Stride. We can
>> choose when to switch but staying doesn't look sensible to me as it
>> certainly won't improve; it's also likely that they'll want everyone
>> migrated eventually so to shut the existing service down.
>>
>
> Well, "multiple flaws" is AFAIK:
> 1/ the packaging of the native client (well, native is a big word, it's
> just a packaged webapp);
> 2/ the guest access/registration.
>
> For 1/, did someone install the Stride client to be sure it's better?
>
> 2/ We don't have any guest access on Stride for now, WDYM by self
> registration is better? IMHO, it would be nice to have GitHub/Google
> authentication integration. I expect most people won't want to create an
> account just to ask a quick question.
>
> And let's not forget all authentication nonsense; especially days that
>> I'm working more on the WildFly side of things and need to login to
>> multiple instances I really look forward to a better system (hopefully
>> it is!?).
>>
>
> Will it be better? Shouldn't we coordinate with WildFly to see where they
> want to go?
>
> If they don't go with Stride, it won't solve your issue.
>
> The only way to fix this issue is to coordinate with all the projects you
> have an interest in and choose the same tool (and check that the tool
> allows authentication on several instances at once or has a centralized
> instance).
>
> AFAICS from Radim's email, Infinispan has already chosen another tool...
>
>
>> Question, since you want a decision: are you only suggesting to delay
>> or suggesting that you should rather stay on HipChat?
>>
>
> I say that we know HipChat sort of works for us as a daily coordination
> tool (not talking about discussions with external people). We have no idea
> Stride will.
>
> And this recent comment
> https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/STRIDE-1973?focusedCommentId=1796169&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-1796169
> makes me think it's still half baked. It's only one comment but I don't
> think there are lots of people already migrated there.
>
> Frankly, the fact that moving to Stride is a one way street and we will
> lose our coordination tool if it doesn't work well makes me feel
> uncomfortable.
>
>
>> Personally, I'm fine delaying a bit even though I can live happily
>> without Jenkins notifications, but let's hear the others as well.
>>
>
> I just want to be able to do my job. That's basically my only requirement.
>
> From my point of view, it seems like a rushed decision that won't solve
> the issues we have, and will potentially create others as we will be
> migrating to beta software.
>
> --
> Guillaume
>