[hibernate-dev] Stride

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi,

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:37 PM, Steve Ebersole <steve at hibernate.org> wrote:

> You can't "do your job" without yet another way to get notified of CI job
> status?  I'm confused - did Jenkins remove all of its other forms of
> notification?  ;)  Seriously though,  I've never understood this desire to
> have yet another communications "inbox" spammed by automated notifications
> - and its even worse in Hip Cat because I can never hide them.  So it is
> hard for me to incorporate this into the argument against moving.
>

Typically, for the websites builds, I like to have the notifications on
HipChat. Not vital but it's something I appreciate.


> Y'all really wanted to move to Hip Chat in the first place even though to
> me it always felt (and feels) half-baked itself.
>

I wasn't part of the team at that point.


> And if the web client is as good as the native client, I assume you use
> the web client instead?
>

Yes. I have a pinned tab for it. Desktop notifications from the browser are
well integrated now.


> So to me it really comes down to what are the blockers to not making this
> move now.  So far I hear:
>
>    1. No Jenkins notifications - see above
>    2. Guest access - meh - If having to have an account to join the
>    discussion is bad then we should immediately make our forums
>    guest-accessible again as well ;)
>
> As mentioned in my email, I don't mind not having guest access if we have
some sort of external auth integration (Github/Twitter/Google). This way,
it avoids creating yet another account. That's what we have on our new
forums.

Maybe Stride has it, I don't know, but I would like our next chat system to
have that.

I took a look at several accounts we have on our forums and most of them
are from GitHub or Google (I took seven randomly and 1 had an account
specific to our forums - no better statistics sorry).

>
>    1. There may be better options out there - at some point can we just
>    pick one and use it?  Is one "inbox" really that much better than another
>    "inbox"?  And clearly I am not even tied to Hip Chat - I was one of the
>    people wanting to not move there.  Radim, what makes Zulip so amazing?
>    2. "Coordination tool"?  Not really sure what this one is about.  Is
>    this back to Jenkins notifications?  If you mean a communications tool, of
>    course it works.  They are largely the same.  Andrea, Sanne and I have
>    played with it, so we in fact do have some idea if it will (spoiler: it
>    does)
>    3. We should go where WildFly goes (?).
>
> My main point is that we have no idea if Stride is stable at the moment.
They definitely don't want to massively migrate the HipChat users and I
found at least one comment of a person who has migrated there and is not
happy at all (not saying it makes all the migrated users unhappy, just
saying that it might be a bad move if we do it now).

So again, what problem are we trying to solve by migrating to Stride while
it's still a work in progress? Because you reversed the question but it is
the correct question.

- If it is the client issue, is the Stride client better integrated? And is
it enough to trigger the migration?
- If it's the access difficulty, does Stride allow external
authentications? Because that's what external users want.
- If it's the "it's a pain to be logged in to multiple instances", are we
all moving to Stride and will it solve the issue - meaning is it easier to
be connected to multiple instances?
- Other issues I'm not aware of?

When you want to migrate to something new, you ponder the risks with the
benefits. For now, noone has stated any clear benefit, apart from "it's
new" and "HipChat has issues but we don't know if they will be solved by
Stride".

Note that my position is not "we should stay on HipChat forever" because we
can't as they will close the service at some point. My position is:
- I'm not sure the risk of moving to a half-baked system is worth it if
there are no clear benefits (I would wait a bit)
- is Stride gonna solve our issues or do we need to move to another system?
(because if it's the case, let's avoid the Stride square).

-- 
Guillaume