Re: [keycloak-user] Policy enforcer without roles in token

Yeah, also for me it could be fine to introduce this feature with some sort of a flag (from the KC GUI or directly in the KC adapter) to control the desired behaviour. So, what about your colleagues? What do they think about that? If you want i can open a Jiira issue about that or i can comment the previously closed PR. It could be fine for you? Thank you again, Matteo On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 8:04 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > You are right. But today the token is the primary source of the identity > (and access context). > > From a KC perspective, it does not make much difference as you said. > Especially because in most cases, the primary (primary from an authz > perspective) claims included in the token during authentication don't > represent user consent or anything alike that could potentially tie the > access context to the session. > > If this feature can just be enabled/disabled so that users decide what > they want to do, for me it is fine. > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 6:14 AM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli(a)cuebiq.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Hi Pedro, >> Sorry for this second email. So the PR has been closed due to the fact >> that it's necessary to validate only token contents. But, what about >> javascript policies? I mean, if i have the following use case: >> >> An user is trying to make a GET to /organizations/1234/reports/1 path. >> To access the following policies must pass (AND condition): >> - An user must have the role "blabla" (role policy) >> - An user must belong to a the group 1234 (javascript policy, we >> validate the path against the fact that he belongs to a group, since we're >> modeling organizations as groups in Keycloak) >> >> I'm validating both contents in the token and both something "external". >> So it's not the same case of validating roles directly reading the database? >> >> Thank you, >> Matteo >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:47 PM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli(a)cuebiq.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 4:17 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva(a)redhat.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 10:40 AM Matteo Restelli <mrestelli(a)cuebiq.com&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Pedro, >>>>> thank you for your reply. >>>>> No, i wasn't the one who requested the feature, anyway i'm still >>>>> interested into it. Our use case includes several microservices (which >>>>> represents modules of our PaaS) which performs authorization checks against >>>>> realm based roles. Every microservices has each own client containing its >>>>> authorization checks. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Interesting, another use-case then ... >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, we've separated authorization inside each backend client, in >>> order to better separate authorization requirements. Each microservice will >>> then validate and refer to its own authorization requirements. The frontend >>> client, instead, is a single public client which receives the complete >>> lists of roles (since they're defined at realm level) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Besides the PR (which is really really interesting and i hope it will >>>>> be included in further releases), what are your recommendations to reduce >>>>> the access token size? I'm asking this because in some browsers there are >>>>> limits (4KB) about cookies & headers length. I can imagine those solutions: >>>>> >>>>> - Keep the token "light" and perform a token exchange into our >>>>> gateway once we receive the token from the single page application, in >>>>> order to retrieve a new token with all the realms roles associated to the >>>>> user >>>>> >>>> >>>> The price you pay is a round-trip to the server. But it works ... >>>> >>> >>> Yeah and i want to completely avoid that, in order to avoid >>> to be "bottlenecked" by Keycloak >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> - Use some particular mode of the adapter which will do the necessary >>>>> to retrieve the roles (but i can't find something like that in the docs) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Roles are gathered from the token, always ... >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, i just saw it debugging the keycloak code locally... :( >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> - Use RPT? Once the gateway receives the access token, perform the >>>>> RPT request to retrieve a token with all the permissions for the particular >>>>> client >>>>> >>>> >>>> The beauty of the RPT is that the permissions should be enough as the >>>> server already granted them based on the state of the current session. >>>> Resource-based permissions also decouple applications from access control >>>> mechanisms so that you have more flexibility and control over the policies >>>> that govern access to your resources. >>>> >>>> It should not be seen as *the* solution for large tokens though ... >>>> >>>> >>>>> - Something else unknown to us? :) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe use a mapper or don't include tokens by default in your token. >>>> So that your client requests what he needs (yeah, more coupling between >>>> your clients + resource servers). The client scopes functionality is very >>>> interesting in this context given that you can set-up a scope that spans >>>> multiple roles, on a per-application basis. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Have you ever faced this kind of problem? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Another user reported a similar requirement that originated that PR. I >>>> see value in having this as it helps the "decouple authorization from your >>>> applications* story. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah me too. I know that the main idea is to validate only what is >>> contained in the token, but maybe it could be possible to introduce some >>> other feature including this possibility... >>> >>> Thank you again, >>> Matteo >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you again, >>>>> Matteo >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 1:20 PM Pedro Igor Silva <psilva(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We had a PR [1] for addressing this use case but it was closed due >>>>>> to not enough quorum to support the changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> While we should keep policy enforcement based on the state carried >>>>>> by tokens, I see as an improvement to also allow users, on a per-use case >>>>>> basis, to fetch roles directly from the realm instead, even if they are not >>>>>> available in the token. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't remember now, but I'm wondering if was you that first >>>>>> requested this so I ended up working on these changes? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Pedro Igor >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://github.com/keycloak/keycloak/pull/6163 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 5:43 AM Matteo Restelli < >>>>>> mrestelli(a)cuebiq.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>>> we’re experiencing issues about JWT access_token size and we were >>>>>>> planning >>>>>>> to remove the “roles” claim as a default, so to remove the claim >>>>>>> from the >>>>>>> access_token. Once we do that, the KC adapter / policy enforcer >>>>>>> returns a >>>>>>> 403. So at this point, does the access_token must have the roles >>>>>>> inside it? >>>>>>> Or it’s another problem which is giving us the 403? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> Matteo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Like <https://www.facebook.com/cuebiq/> I Follow >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/Cuebiq>I Connect >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/cuebiq> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email is reserved >>>>>>> exclusively for sending and receiving messages inherent working >>>>>>> activities, >>>>>>> and is not intended nor authorized for personal use. Therefore, any >>>>>>> outgoing messages or incoming response messages will be treated as >>>>>>> company >>>>>>> messages and will be subject to the corporate IT policy and may >>>>>>> possibly to >>>>>>> be read by persons other than by the subscriber of the box. >>>>>>> Confidential >>>>>>> information may be contained in this message. 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