5:15 p.m.
TL;DR - I propose to simplify subsystem development by moving some of the validation logic
from the resource definitions to the management resource registration. The goal is to
provide a static representation of the resources and let the MMR dynamically pick the
“meaningful” parts.
Last week an user complains that the messaging-activemq subsystem’s statistics were not
updated in domain mode.
It turned out that he was reading the metrics on the DC
(/profile=full/subsytem=messaging-activemq/…) instead of reading on the server
(/host=master/server=server-one/subsystem=messaging-activemq/…)
It is a bug[1] in the messaging-activemq because its resources register their metrics
without checking whether that makes sense. The correct check is to look at
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() to check whether a resource can register its
metrics (the same check applies also for runtime attributes/operations).
I looked at other subsystems and undertow has the same issue.
This check does not work well with the PersistentResourceDefinition that is used
throughout the messaging-activemq and undertow subsystems. This API works best when the
definition of the resources uses a bunch of static instances for the resource itself, its
attributes, metrics, etc. These static instances are also used by the companion
PersistentResourceXMLDescription to provide a static XML representation of the subsystem.
If I have to pass this context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() boolean to every resources
in the subsystem, I get rid of the static representations used by the
PersistentResourceDefinition and PersistentResourceXMLDescription and I have to add a lot
of simple but boilerplate code in all my resource definitions.
The datasources subsystem does not exhibit this issue. It works around it by installing a
Service at RUNTIME step to register (resp. unregister) statistics resource definitions
when the service is started (res. stopped). Since services are only installed when runtime
is supported, it ensures that the datasources metrics are available only on server and not
on the DC.
It looks correct but I’m not a big fan of this solution. It makes the subsystem definition
more complex to understand and it also involves boilerplate code that every subsystem
providing runtime should write.
I was wondering if we could simplify the development of the subsystems by moving some of
the logic dealing with that use case in the ManagementResourceRegistration instead.
My proposal would be to have the resource definitions be “complete”. The resource always
defines its attributes/metrics/operations.
When the MMR takes this definition and registers the different parts, it would only
register the “meaningful” one depending on the ProcessType and RunningMode. E.g. the MRR
of the DC or a admin-only server would not register metrics & runtime
attributes/operations while the MMR on a normal server would register everything.
This increase the complexity of the MMR which has to figure out whether to actually
register something or discard it but it makes writing subsystem simpler and more robust.
Brian told me there might some exceptions (e.g. a runtime op that could be invoked on the
DC) but these case could be handled by adding metadata to the resource definitions.
This approach segues quite well with the idea to generate subsystem using annotations. All
the subsystem developers has to do is describe extensively the subsystem resources (using
static objects now, annotations in a future version) and let the MMR decides which parts
of the resources are actually registered.
To sum up, the definition of a resource is static, while its registration is dynamic.
Do you see any issue with that proposal?
As a first step, I’ll start by creating the corresponding WFCORE issue to fix WFLY-6546
issue by ensuring the MMR does not register metric if the runtime registration is not
valid. This should not have any API impact (but the behaviour will certainly change).
jeff
[1] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-6546
--
Jeff Mesnil
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://jmesnil.net/
5:46 p.m.
I think it's the right direction. It will just take some care to not
break stuff by not registering stuff that really should be registered.
Good news is I had the same concern about
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-831 but it seems there wasn't
much of a problem.
Twists to think about in this:
1) The "runtime-only but ok on the DC" case I mentioned, but I think
that's solvable with more metadata, and we don't support it now so you
won't break anything.
2) Subsystems running on the HC. I don't have any good reason why these
would be an issue; I'm just pointing them out as something to remember
as pretty much no one but Kabir has dealt with them. The
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() provides the correct response
for those.
3) Definitions of runtime-only child resources. This one is a bit more
tricky. To be consistent they should be handled similarly to how you
propose dealing with metrics. But they are different -- the code that
registers the runtime-only ResourceDef may then go on and try to use the
returned MRR, or may even come back later and look it up. But really the
MRR shouldn't end up in the tree at all.
Good news about 3) is code that is doing what I describe is probably
already guarding that work with
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid(). So changing something probably
won't break that code.
4) API change. Doing this is going to introduce management API changes,
by removing stuff that should have never been there. So we need to
account for that (probably bump API versions, check for console breakage.)
BTW, the datasource subsystem thing is a bit of a different beast. The
actual list of metrics is not known until runtime, because they vary
based on the driver. That's why the registration is done that way.
- Brian
On 4/25/16 10:15 AM, Jeff Mesnil wrote:
TL;DR - I propose to simplify subsystem development by moving some of
the validation logic from the resource definitions to the management resource
registration. The goal is to provide a static representation of the resources and let the
MMR dynamically pick the “meaningful” parts.
Last week an user complains that the messaging-activemq subsystem’s statistics were not
updated in domain mode.
It turned out that he was reading the metrics on the DC
(/profile=full/subsytem=messaging-activemq/…) instead of reading on the server
(/host=master/server=server-one/subsystem=messaging-activemq/…)
It is a bug[1] in the messaging-activemq because its resources register their metrics
without checking whether that makes sense. The correct check is to look at
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() to check whether a resource can register its
metrics (the same check applies also for runtime attributes/operations).
I looked at other subsystems and undertow has the same issue.
This check does not work well with the PersistentResourceDefinition that is used
throughout the messaging-activemq and undertow subsystems. This API works best when the
definition of the resources uses a bunch of static instances for the resource itself, its
attributes, metrics, etc. These static instances are also used by the companion
PersistentResourceXMLDescription to provide a static XML representation of the subsystem.
If I have to pass this context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() boolean to every
resources in the subsystem, I get rid of the static representations used by the
PersistentResourceDefinition and PersistentResourceXMLDescription and I have to add a lot
of simple but boilerplate code in all my resource definitions.
The datasources subsystem does not exhibit this issue. It works around it by installing a
Service at RUNTIME step to register (resp. unregister) statistics resource definitions
when the service is started (res. stopped). Since services are only installed when runtime
is supported, it ensures that the datasources metrics are available only on server and not
on the DC.
It looks correct but I’m not a big fan of this solution. It makes the subsystem
definition more complex to understand and it also involves boilerplate code that every
subsystem providing runtime should write.
I was wondering if we could simplify the development of the subsystems by moving some of
the logic dealing with that use case in the ManagementResourceRegistration instead.
My proposal would be to have the resource definitions be “complete”. The resource always
defines its attributes/metrics/operations.
When the MMR takes this definition and registers the different parts, it would only
register the “meaningful” one depending on the ProcessType and RunningMode. E.g. the MRR
of the DC or a admin-only server would not register metrics & runtime
attributes/operations while the MMR on a normal server would register everything.
This increase the complexity of the MMR which has to figure out whether to actually
register something or discard it but it makes writing subsystem simpler and more robust.
Brian told me there might some exceptions (e.g. a runtime op that could be invoked on the
DC) but these case could be handled by adding metadata to the resource definitions.
This approach segues quite well with the idea to generate subsystem using annotations.
All the subsystem developers has to do is describe extensively the subsystem resources
(using static objects now, annotations in a future version) and let the MMR decides which
parts of the resources are actually registered.
To sum up, the definition of a resource is static, while its registration is dynamic.
Do you see any issue with that proposal?
As a first step, I’ll start by creating the corresponding WFCORE issue to fix WFLY-6546
issue by ensuring the MMR does not register metric if the runtime registration is not
valid. This should not have any API impact (but the behaviour will certainly change).
jeff
[1] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-6546
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
6:46 p.m.
There was already discussion to change PeristentResourceDefinition and
others to behave the way you describe.
One part of that was related to https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-831
as Brian pointed out already.
The other part was potential breaking / change in APIs and was the reason
why it was postponed to after EAP7.
In short, lets do this.
--
tomaz
On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Brian Stansberry <
brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I think it's the right direction. It will just take some care to
not
break stuff by not registering stuff that really should be registered.
Good news is I had the same concern about
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-831 but it seems there wasn't
much of a problem.
Twists to think about in this:
1) The "runtime-only but ok on the DC" case I mentioned, but I think
that's solvable with more metadata, and we don't support it now so you
won't break anything.
2) Subsystems running on the HC. I don't have any good reason why these
would be an issue; I'm just pointing them out as something to remember
as pretty much no one but Kabir has dealt with them. The
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() provides the correct response
for those.
3) Definitions of runtime-only child resources. This one is a bit more
tricky. To be consistent they should be handled similarly to how you
propose dealing with metrics. But they are different -- the code that
registers the runtime-only ResourceDef may then go on and try to use the
returned MRR, or may even come back later and look it up. But really the
MRR shouldn't end up in the tree at all.
Good news about 3) is code that is doing what I describe is probably
already guarding that work with
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid(). So changing something probably
won't break that code.
4) API change. Doing this is going to introduce management API changes,
by removing stuff that should have never been there. So we need to
account for that (probably bump API versions, check for console breakage.)
BTW, the datasource subsystem thing is a bit of a different beast. The
actual list of metrics is not known until runtime, because they vary
based on the driver. That's why the registration is done that way.
- Brian
On 4/25/16 10:15 AM, Jeff Mesnil wrote:
> TL;DR - I propose to simplify subsystem development by moving some of
the validation logic from the resource definitions to the management
resource registration. The goal is to provide a static representation of
the resources and let the MMR dynamically pick the “meaningful” parts.
>
> Last week an user complains that the messaging-activemq subsystem’s
statistics were not updated in domain mode.
> It turned out that he was reading the metrics on the DC
(/profile=full/subsytem=messaging-activemq/…) instead of reading on the
server (/host=master/server=server-one/subsystem=messaging-activemq/…)
>
> It is a bug[1] in the messaging-activemq because its resources register
their metrics without checking whether that makes sense. The correct check
is to look at context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() to check whether a
resource can register its metrics (the same check applies also for runtime
attributes/operations).
> I looked at other subsystems and undertow has the same issue.
>
> This check does not work well with the PersistentResourceDefinition that
is used throughout the messaging-activemq and undertow subsystems. This API
works best when the definition of the resources uses a bunch of static
instances for the resource itself, its attributes, metrics, etc. These
static instances are also used by the companion
PersistentResourceXMLDescription to provide a static XML representation of
the subsystem.
> If I have to pass this context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() boolean
to every resources in the subsystem, I get rid of the static
representations used by the PersistentResourceDefinition and
PersistentResourceXMLDescription and I have to add a lot of simple but
boilerplate code in all my resource definitions.
>
> The datasources subsystem does not exhibit this issue. It works around
it by installing a Service at RUNTIME step to register (resp. unregister)
statistics resource definitions when the service is started (res. stopped).
Since services are only installed when runtime is supported, it ensures
that the datasources metrics are available only on server and not on the DC.
> It looks correct but I’m not a big fan of this solution. It makes the
subsystem definition more complex to understand and it also involves
boilerplate code that every subsystem providing runtime should write.
>
> I was wondering if we could simplify the development of the subsystems
by moving some of the logic dealing with that use case in the
ManagementResourceRegistration instead.
>
> My proposal would be to have the resource definitions be “complete”. The
resource always defines its attributes/metrics/operations.
> When the MMR takes this definition and registers the different parts, it
would only register the “meaningful” one depending on the ProcessType and
RunningMode. E.g. the MRR of the DC or a admin-only server would not
register metrics & runtime attributes/operations while the MMR on a normal
server would register everything.
> This increase the complexity of the MMR which has to figure out whether
to actually register something or discard it but it makes writing subsystem
simpler and more robust.
>
> Brian told me there might some exceptions (e.g. a runtime op that could
be invoked on the DC) but these case could be handled by adding metadata to
the resource definitions.
>
> This approach segues quite well with the idea to generate subsystem
using annotations. All the subsystem developers has to do is describe
extensively the subsystem resources (using static objects now, annotations
in a future version) and let the MMR decides which parts of the resources
are actually registered.
>
> To sum up, the definition of a resource is static, while its
registration is dynamic.
>
> Do you see any issue with that proposal?
> As a first step, I’ll start by creating the corresponding WFCORE issue
to fix WFLY-6546 issue by ensuring the MMR does not register metric if the
runtime registration is not valid. This should not have any API impact (but
the behaviour will certainly change).
>
> jeff
>
> [1] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-6546
>
--
Brian Stansberry
Senior Principal Software Engineer
JBoss by Red Hat
_______________________________________________
wildfly-dev mailing list
wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/wildfly-dev
4:02 p.m.
The work to simplify registration of metrics described in this mail was merged[1] in
wildfly-core a few weeks ago.
The idea is that the MRR will check the process type to determine whether the metric
definition must actually be registered or discarded. There were cases where the metrics
would have to be registered regardless of the process type (e.g. mainly for the jmx
subsystem and few other resources) and I added a FORCE_REGISTRATION flag to force the
registration of the metric.
I’m now continuing on that direction for runtime attributes[2] and operations[3].
A so-called runtime attribute is flagged with the STORAGE_RUNTIME flag documented as
"An attribute whose value is only stored in runtime services, and isn't stored in
the persistent configuration.”
I assume that in the definition “runtime services” means “runtime MSC services”. Please
correct me if that’s not the case (and don’t bother reading the rest of the mail :)
Looking at wildly-core and wildfly codebase, We have 2 distinct subsets of runtime
attributes:
(a) attributes which require runtime MSC services to be handled
(b) attributes which don’t require runtime MSC services but compute/store their value from
some other runtime.
Type (a) corresponds to the STORAGE_RUNTIME definition but type (b) differs (its value is
stored neither in runtime service, not in the persistent configuration)
The type (a) is the majority of runtime attributes and all subsystem (except JMX) uses
this type.
The type (b) is often located in our core-service resources or on HC/server root
resources.
I have a branch where I flagged all the type (b) with the same FORCE_REGISTRATION flag
than the metrics and it does the job.
But I find this flag poorly named. It tells the MRR what to do with the attribute/metric
but it does not describe the attribute/metric in a meaningful way.
How is a subsystem writer supposed to know when to use this flag or not?
I’d like to change it and rename it to something like RUNTIME_SERVICE_NOT_REQUIRED. A
subsystem writer could use this flag to specify that a runtime attribute does not require
runtime service to handle the attribute.
Runtime attribute of type (a) would be flagged with STORAGE_RUNTIME
Runtime attribute of type (b) would be flagged with STORAGE_RUNTIME and
RUNTIME_SERVICE_NOT_REQUIRED
The MRR could then decide whether to register the attributes depending on the process type
and the presence of these flags.
Another possibility would be to add a 3rd STORAGE flag such as
STORAGE_RUNTIME_BUT_NOT_MSC_RUNTIME (I suck at naming things!) for the type (b).
I don’t like this as attributes of type (b) will most likely always be implemented by core
developers (i.e. people who knows what they do) and I don’t want to add to our API a type
of STORAGE that subsystem developers will never have to use.
What do you think about changing the name of the FORCE_REGISTRATION and is
RUNTIME_SERVICE_NOT_REQUIRED a good renaming? (I don’t like having “negative” flag
though…)
The FORCE_REGISTRATION flag was introduced in a 3.0.0.Alpha1.
Would it be possible to rename it before 3.0.0 is released or should I add another flag +
@Deprecated, etc.?
jeff
[1] https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly-core/pull/1541
[2] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-1588
[3] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFCORE-1586
On 25 Apr 2016, at 17:15, Jeff Mesnil <jmesnil(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
TL;DR - I propose to simplify subsystem development by moving some of the validation
logic from the resource definitions to the management resource registration. The goal is
to provide a static representation of the resources and let the MMR dynamically pick the
“meaningful” parts.
Last week an user complains that the messaging-activemq subsystem’s statistics were not
updated in domain mode.
It turned out that he was reading the metrics on the DC
(/profile=full/subsytem=messaging-activemq/…) instead of reading on the server
(/host=master/server=server-one/subsystem=messaging-activemq/…)
It is a bug[1] in the messaging-activemq because its resources register their metrics
without checking whether that makes sense. The correct check is to look at
context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() to check whether a resource can register its
metrics (the same check applies also for runtime attributes/operations).
I looked at other subsystems and undertow has the same issue.
This check does not work well with the PersistentResourceDefinition that is used
throughout the messaging-activemq and undertow subsystems. This API works best when the
definition of the resources uses a bunch of static instances for the resource itself, its
attributes, metrics, etc. These static instances are also used by the companion
PersistentResourceXMLDescription to provide a static XML representation of the subsystem.
If I have to pass this context.isRuntimeOnlyRegistrationValid() boolean to every
resources in the subsystem, I get rid of the static representations used by the
PersistentResourceDefinition and PersistentResourceXMLDescription and I have to add a lot
of simple but boilerplate code in all my resource definitions.
The datasources subsystem does not exhibit this issue. It works around it by installing a
Service at RUNTIME step to register (resp. unregister) statistics resource definitions
when the service is started (res. stopped). Since services are only installed when runtime
is supported, it ensures that the datasources metrics are available only on server and not
on the DC.
It looks correct but I’m not a big fan of this solution. It makes the subsystem
definition more complex to understand and it also involves boilerplate code that every
subsystem providing runtime should write.
I was wondering if we could simplify the development of the subsystems by moving some of
the logic dealing with that use case in the ManagementResourceRegistration instead.
My proposal would be to have the resource definitions be “complete”. The resource always
defines its attributes/metrics/operations.
When the MMR takes this definition and registers the different parts, it would only
register the “meaningful” one depending on the ProcessType and RunningMode. E.g. the MRR
of the DC or a admin-only server would not register metrics & runtime
attributes/operations while the MMR on a normal server would register everything.
This increase the complexity of the MMR which has to figure out whether to actually
register something or discard it but it makes writing subsystem simpler and more robust.
Brian told me there might some exceptions (e.g. a runtime op that could be invoked on the
DC) but these case could be handled by adding metadata to the resource definitions.
This approach segues quite well with the idea to generate subsystem using annotations.
All the subsystem developers has to do is describe extensively the subsystem resources
(using static objects now, annotations in a future version) and let the MMR decides which
parts of the resources are actually registered.
To sum up, the definition of a resource is static, while its registration is dynamic.
Do you see any issue with that proposal?
As a first step, I’ll start by creating the corresponding WFCORE issue to fix WFLY-6546
issue by ensuring the MMR does not register metric if the runtime registration is not
valid. This should not have any API impact (but the behaviour will certainly change).
jeff
[1] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/WFLY-6546
--
Jeff Mesnil
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://jmesnil.net/
--
Jeff Mesnil
JBoss, a division of Red Hat
http://jmesnil.net/
2868
days inactive
2928
days old
3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Brian Stansberry -
Jeff Mesnil -
Tomaž Cerar