10:55 a.m.
At the time when first modular Java was released in September 2017 [0]
JBoss Modules team have already been working on proper integration with it
[2].
That effort was finished 7 months later after Java 9 initial release and
JBoss Modules version supporting Java's JPMS modules was integrated into
WildFly in April 2018.
During the JBoss Modules 1.8.0.Final merge into WildFly some legacy and
WildFly specific modules have been deprecated, see [2] and [3]. These are:
* ibm.jdk (aggregation module for IBM JDK8 internals)
* javax.api (aggregation module for some Java's official APIs)
* javax.xml.stream.api (streaming api)
* javax.sql.api (sql api)
* sun.jdk (aggregation module for SUN JDK internals)
We created and defined these modules over time as WildFly was developed
and before
Java got modularized via [5]. But with introduction of modular Java
everything changed
and there is no more reason to use these legacy modules that we came up in
the past.
It is preferred and recomended to use official Java JPMS modules instead.
All five obsolete modules were deprecated in the past but second
important step
of removing references on them wasn't completed yet and so they are still
being used
in both WildFly and WildFly Core. Now before EAP8 goes final is the right
time
to clean it up and complete the migration to standard Java's JPMS modules
and ideally
get rid of these five deprecated modules. Another option is to keep them
(although
unreferenced) in WildFly & EAP8 for backwards compability.
There were identified two areas of above deprecated modules usages:
a) module.xml files in WildFly Core and WildFly
b) server runtime code
To migrate to Java JPMS modules it is important to know which JPMS
module(s) should be
used/referenced instead. Following is the mapping of legacy WildFly modules
to Java JPMS modules:
1) ibm.jdk deprecated module cannot be migrated to standard Java JPMS
module. This module was introduced
because we needed some of IBM JDK8 internals to be available in WildFly
in the past.
When WildFly Core and WildFly code base moved to modular JDKs (JDK11
and above) this legacy module
is not needed anymore. It is because recent IBM JDK 11 and above are
based on OpenJDK and its JPMS modules architecture.
References to that module can be eliminated completely without any
further migration.
2) javax.api deprecated module will be replaced with one or some of the
following JPMS modules it aggregates:
- java.se
- jdk.xml.dom
where java.se is also Java's JPMS aggregation module and it can be
further dereferenced to smaller JPMS modules that are only needed
3) javax.xml.stream.api will be replaced with java.xml JPMS module
4) javax.sql.api deprecated module will be replaced with one or some of
the following JPMS modules it aggregates:
- java.sql
- java.sql.rowset
- java.transaction.xa
5) sun.jdk deprecated module will be replaced with one or some of the
following JPMS modules it emulates:
- modules whose name starts with jdk. prefix (note these are specific
to the JDK and will not necessarily be available in all Java
implementations)
The last remaining bit we would like to clarify and standardize with
this cleanup effort
is server runtime code referencing these legacy WildFly modules. It was
identified that WildFly server propagates:
* javax.api
* ibm.jdk
* sun.jdk
* org.jboss.vfs
modules to all deployments by default.
In order to standardize WildFly and EAP8 deployments we propose the
following changes:
* only java.se JPMS module will be propagated to all deployments by
default - was addressed with [6]
* deprecated ibm.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments by
default - will be addressed with [7]
* deprecated sun.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments by
default - will be addressed with [8]
* org.jboss.vfs will not be propagated to all deployments - was addressed
with [9]
This proposal of course introduces a potential (but fixable) backward
incompatibility issue between EAP7 and EAP8 deployments.
Deployments that were relying on sun.jdk module or org.jboss.vfs module to
be available in their deployments by default will need to be fixed
to reference org.jboss.vfs module or jdk. prefixed JPMS modules explicitly
- for example see [10].
Best regards,
JBoss Modules Team
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history - Java release dates
[1] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/MODULES-254 - Support for dependency
on Jigsaw modules from static modules
[2] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-3705 - Allow dependencies on
JDK modules
[3] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-3684 - Upgrade JBoss Modules to
1.8.0.Final
[4] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6248 - Only Java SE aggregation
module should be visible to all deployments by default
[5] https://openjdk.org/jeps/200 - JEP 200: The Modular JDK
[6] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6237 - Eliminate usage of
deprecated javax.api module
[7] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6245 - Eliminate usage of
deprecated ibm.jdk module
[8] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6249 - Eliminate usage of
deprecated sun.jdk module
[9] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6250 - Don't include
org.jboss.vfs module to all deployments by default
[10] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFLY-17666 - Deployments using RMI
Java Naming provider must define explicit dependency on jdk.naming.rmi JPMS
module
8:58 a.m.
Hello Richard,
Accordingly with your description, instead of only removing the usage, it
looks like ibm.jdk module can be (and should be) completely removed from
WildFly Core since it is meant for JDK 8. If so, it means [7] and the
WildFly counterpart PR needs some changes.
Notice we have already merged [6] and [9] without a proper discussion
first, but due to the silence on this topic it seems we could be fine.
With the current status, if there is an application incompatibility because
those modules are no longer made available to the deployments, the simple
solution is to add them back via deployment structure since the modules are
still available, although deprecated. In any other case, let us know so we
can act in consequence before releasing WF28.
That could be the less aggressive approach; remove them from the
deployments in WF28 and completely remove them in WF29 for example.
If you get your application affected due to the removal from the
deployments, you can easily workaround by adding them again via
jboss-deployemnt-structure, but you have to know that they will be
completely removed in the following release so you need to adapt your
applications for such removal or raise any issues if WildFly doesn't
provide a valid alternative for your use case.
On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com> wrote:
3:48 p.m.
Thank you, Scott Marlow, for pointing me at this thread! Thanks, Richard
for writing this up; sorry I didn't see it last week.
Responses in-line.
On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 8:59 AM Yeray Borges Santana <yborgess(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
I'm not sure about this. Please see below.
I'm thinking we might do a WF 29 Alpha at the end of April. If we do
something less aggressive in WF 28 with the intent to finish in WF 29, that
finishing work should be in that Alpha. There's various code organization
and deprecated item cleanup work that we're planning and I'd like to get
all of that done for that Alpha so we can focus for the rest of the WF 29
dev cycle on other things. I expect April will be devoted to this kind of
work, plus bug fixing.
So the paths listed in
https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly-core/blob/main/core-feature-pack/commo...
are no longer available in recent IBM JDK 11 releases?
If not, then I agree with Yeray that we might as well remove the module in
28 Final or 29 Alpha1. Otherwise, if any of the listed paths are no longer
relevant we should clean up the module.xml. For any that do still exist,
the question becomes what functionality will be lost by removing access to
these packages?
For any packages that still exist we should work with the Windup project (
https://github.com/windup/windup) to see if they want to add migration
rules. If the use cases are more ones where a class is not a compile time
dependency but ends up needing to be loaded at runtime, then the need to
add a dependency on ibm.jdk becomes something to document, perhaps as part
of https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFLY-14330.
Ok. I think this is right in general, although there is an open question
about the wildflyee.api module, which is also being discussed in zulip at
https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/174184-wildfly-developers/to....
My instinct here is that we need to add java.se back into that, as
otherwise we are breaking uses of that module. Some of those uses we could
patch up by modifying ExternalModuleSpecService to add a java.se
dependency, but that would leave cases where user provided static modules
that depend on wildflyee.api might be broken.
I don't think wildflyee.api should depend on / export jdk.xml.dom though.
That's a breakage that I think we should just accept.
Tangent: We should add a comment block to the wildflyee.api module.xml
explaining its purpose/use. Every 2 years that module pops up in some
context and it takes several hours of discussion to remember how/why it's
used. :)
So AIUI from #2 above, the effect of exporting java.se by default instead
of javax.api is that deployments no longer see jdk.xml.dom packages by
default. I think that is fine.
* deprecated ibm.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments by
> default - will be addressed with [7]
>
I agree we should do this, but we need to handle what I mentioned above
under point #1.
* deprecated sun.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments by
> default - will be addressed with [8]
>
We need to do much the same kind of thinking as is noted above re ibm.jdk.
Except it's both harder (because of far more paths) and more urgent
(because IBM JDK is less used.)
That said, it makes sense to not expose JDK internals to deployments. We
just need to better understand what use cases may be affected.
I agree. VFS should not be an application API. I'm hoping/praying that the
only reason we exposed it to deployments in the first place was for our own
internally classloading needs, not because user apps wanted access.
Note that depending on org.jboss.vfs will result in a log WARN, because the
module is jboss.api=private. Which it should be.
--
Brian Stansberry
Principal Architect, Red Hat JBoss EAP
He/Him/His
3:06 p.m.
Hello Brian, Yeray and others,
Comments below:
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 10:49 PM Brian Stansberry <
brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Sounds reasonable.
Correct. They are not available in IBM JDK11+
Your instinct was right Brian and I already commented and approved that
partial revert PR.
java.se dependency is needed in wildflyee.api module after javax.api
removal.
I share the same reasoning. And not just for the wildflyee.api module. If
some module needs dependency on jdk.xml.dom that dependency must be added
there explicitly.
Correct. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I already answered that above. Those APIs are not available on IBM JDK11+
anymore.
Via wildfly testsuite I identified just one see [10] - JNDI over RMI.
TCK tests may discover other usages similar to WFCORE-6277
<https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6277> .
WildFly testsuite and TCK will give us better answers.
We used a similar approach for JAXP removal changes in the past.
We analyzed and fixed the problems that arose up as we moved forward.
This said after these changes will get some bake time we will have more
answers. And we will see if the WINDUP project will need to be involved.
* org.jboss.vfs will not be propagated to all deployments - was addressed
Workaround exists. Add dependency to deployments explicitly.
This proposal of course introduces a potential (but fixable) backward
3:32 p.m.
Ok, this all sounds good. Thanks for driving this, Richard.
Various "Brian nods his head in agreement" comments are inline below.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 3:07 PM Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com> wrote:
:-)
That makes this one easy.
Thanks, Richard.
I'll do this in the same PR where I add some comments to sun.jdk's
module.xml.
+1
Sounds good. And as you noted for any problem cases there is a proper JPMS
module to use, instead of paths via sun.jdk.
--
Brian Stansberry
Principal Architect, Red Hat JBoss EAP
He/Him/His
6:26 a.m.
Thanks all for the discussions, they have helped me to get a picture of all
the intentions and ongoing work.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 9:32 PM Brian Stansberry <brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
@Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com> , notice we plan to release
WildFly
Core 20.0.0.Final tomorrow, so there is still a chance to get this cleanup
done for WildFly 28, if you want to get this one also in we would need a PR
today.
9:09 a.m.
Hello Yeray,
The sun.jdk cleanup PR is too dangerous to be included in last minutes
in WildFly 28 IMHO.
It has the potential to break the TCK. We should postpone it till the next
29 Alpha release instead.
Rio
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 1:27 PM Yeray Borges Santana <yborgess(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
2:46 p.m.
Hello Yeray,
Comments below:
On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 3:59 PM Yeray Borges Santana <yborgess(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
I plan to do these deprecated modules cleanup in two phases:
* First remove their usages
* Second somewhere in near future remove them from WildFly completely
To answer your question: Yes ibm.jdk module can be removed from WildFly
completely as it will not cause any harm. It is exposing just IBM JDK8
internals.
I apologize for my silence on this topic. I was asked by Brian (and he was
right) to open discussion about these upcoming changes.
Correct. But a better solution is to declare dependency only on JDK
internal modules that are really needed and not use our deprecated modules.
To be clear it is not documented anywhere which modules are automatically
available to deployments by default.
In the past when something was not working for us or our users we tended to
unlock these JDK internals
via sun.jdk or ibm.jdk modules so they started to work auto-magically.
After many years sun.jdk and ibm.jdk modules became garbage modules.
In the meantime Java was modularized and its modules standardized. Now we
and our
users know which JDK internal modules they need to depend on when they want
to use them.
Yes. That sounds like a good plan.
That shouldn't happen. Every JDK internal API that was exposed via sun.jdk
module is available in some JPMS module.
Java users know which JPMS module they want to use in their application.
3:26 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 2:48 PM Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com> wrote:
This is a good point. Java SE provides a proper, clean way for applications
to get access to those packages, so as long as a WildFly deployment
declaring a dependency on the SE modules works properly, there is a simple,
better solution for anyone needing this.
Java users know which JPMS module they want to use in their application.
And if they don't, our sun.jdk module.xml has comments preceding each block
of path elements telling people the name of the associated JPMS module. We
should slightly beef up the comments in that module.xml a bit to provide a
bit more background, but the key info is already there. I'll send up a PR
instead of describing what I mean. ;)
> >> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at
3:56 PM Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com >>
wrote:
> >>> At the time when first modular Java was
released in September 2017 [0]
>>> JBoss Modules team have already been working on proper integration with
>>> it [2].
>>> That effort was finished 7 months later after Java 9 initial release and
>>> JBoss Modules version supporting Java's JPMS modules was integrated into
>>> WildFly in April 2018.
>> >>> During the JBoss
Modules 1.8.0.Final merge into WildFly some legacy and
>>> WildFly specific modules have been deprecated, see [2] and [3]. These
>>> are:
>> >>> * ibm.jdk (aggregation
module for IBM JDK8 internals)
>>> * javax.api (aggregation module for some Java's official APIs)
>>> * javax.xml.stream.api (streaming api)
>>> * javax.sql.api (sql api)
>>> * sun.jdk (aggregation module for SUN JDK internals)
>> >>> We created and
defined these modules over time as WildFly was
>>> developed and before
>>> Java got modularized via [5]. But with introduction of modular Java
>>> everything changed
>>> and there is no more reason to use these legacy modules that we came up
>>> in the past.
>>> It is preferred and recomended to use official Java JPMS modules instead.
>> >>> All five obsolete
modules were deprecated in the past but second
>>> important step
>>> of removing references on them wasn't completed yet and so they are
>>> still being used
>>> in both WildFly and WildFly Core. Now before EAP8 goes final is the
>>> right time
>>> to clean it up and complete the migration to standard Java's JPMS
>>> modules and ideally
>>> get rid of these five deprecated modules. Another option is to keep them
>>> (although
>>> unreferenced) in WildFly & EAP8 for backwards compability.
>> >>> There were
identified two areas of above deprecated modules usages:
>>> a) module.xml files in WildFly Core and WildFly
>>> b) server runtime code
>> >>> To migrate to Java
JPMS modules it is important to know which JPMS
>>> module(s) should be
>>> used/referenced instead. Following is the mapping of legacy WildFly
>>> modules to Java JPMS modules:
>> >>> 1) ibm.jdk deprecated
module cannot be migrated to standard Java JPMS
>>> module. This module was introduced
>>> because we needed some of IBM JDK8 internals to be available in
>>> WildFly in the past.
>>> When WildFly Core and WildFly code base moved to modular JDKs (JDK11
>>> and above) this legacy module
>>> is not needed anymore. It is because recent IBM JDK 11 and above are
>>> based on OpenJDK and its JPMS modules architecture.
>>> References to that module can be eliminated completely without any
>>> further migration.
>> >>> 2) javax.api
deprecated module will be replaced with one or some of the
>>> following JPMS modules it aggregates:
>>> - java.se
>>> - jdk.xml.dom
>>> where java.se is also Java's JPMS aggregation module and it can be
>>> further dereferenced to smaller JPMS modules that are only needed
>> >>> 3)
javax.xml.stream.api will be replaced with java.xml JPMS module
>> >>> 4) javax.sql.api
deprecated module will be replaced with one or some of
>>> the following JPMS modules it aggregates:
>>> - java.sql
>>> - java.sql.rowset
>>> - java.transaction.xa
>> >>> 5) sun.jdk deprecated
module will be replaced with one or some of the
>>> following JPMS modules it emulates:
>>> - modules whose name starts with jdk. prefix (note these are
>>> specific to the JDK and will not necessarily be available in all Java
>>> implementations)
>> >>> The last remaining
bit we would like to clarify and standardize with
>>> this cleanup effort
>>> is server runtime code referencing these legacy WildFly modules. It was
>>> identified that WildFly server propagates:
>>> * javax.api
>>> * ibm.jdk
>>> * sun.jdk
>>> * org.jboss.vfs
>>> modules to all deployments by default.
>> >>> In order to
standardize WildFly and EAP8 deployments we propose the
>>> following changes:
>>> * only java.se JPMS module will be propagated to all deployments by
>>> default - was addressed with [6]
>>> * deprecated ibm.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments
>>> by default - will be addressed with [7]
>>> * deprecated sun.jdk will not be propagated anymore to all deployments
>>> by default - will be addressed with [8]
>>> * org.jboss.vfs will not be propagated to all deployments - was
>>> addressed with [9]
>>> This proposal of course introduces a potential (but fixable) backward
>>> incompatibility issue between EAP7 and EAP8 deployments.
>>> Deployments that were relying on sun.jdk module or org.jboss.vfs module
>>> to be available in their deployments by default will need to be fixed
>>> to reference org.jboss.vfs module or jdk. prefixed JPMS modules
>>> explicitly - for example see [10].
>> >>> Best regards,
>>> JBoss Modules Team
>> >>> [0]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history - Java release
>>> dates
>>> [1] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/MODULES-254 - Support for
>>> dependency on Jigsaw modules from static modules
>>> [2] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-3705 - Allow dependencies
>>> on JDK modules
>>> [3] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-3684 - Upgrade JBoss
>>> Modules to 1.8.0.Final
>>> [4] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6248 - Only Java SE
>>> aggregation module should be visible to all deployments by default
>>> [5] https://openjdk.org/jeps/200 - JEP 200: The Modular JDK
>>> [6] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6237 - Eliminate usage of
>>> deprecated javax.api module
>>> [7] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6245 - Eliminate usage of
>>> deprecated ibm.jdk module
>>> [8] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6249 - Eliminate usage of
>>> deprecated sun.jdk module
>>> [9] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6250 - Don't include
>>> org.jboss.vfs module to all deployments by default
>>> [10] https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFLY-17666 - Deployments using
>>> RMI Java Naming provider must define explicit dependency on jdk.naming.rmi
>>> JPMS module
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wildfly-dev mailing list -- wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wildfly-dev-leave(a)lists.jboss.org
>>> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
> >> _______________________________________________
>> wildfly-dev mailing list -- wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wildfly-dev-leave(a)lists.jboss.org
>> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
> _______________________________________________
> wildfly-dev mailing list -- wildfly-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to wildfly-dev-leave(a)lists.jboss.org
> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
--
Brian Stansberry
Principal Architect, Red Hat JBoss EAP
He/Him/His
3:37 p.m.
This is a late reply to this email and we've shipped WildFly 28 with these
changes. I feel we should consider reverting
https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6250 removing the org.jboss.vfs
module. Spring deployments require the VFS to be on the class path. They
use this if the vfs protocol is used when traversing resources. Because our
resources use this protocol, Spring makes decisions, for better or worse,
about using VFS. Having the module not be on the deployments classpath is
causing CNFE's to be thrown.
As a workaround a user could add a module dependency to org.jboss.vfs.
However, this is a private module and a warning will be logged.
Another possible workaround would be for the jaxrs subsystem to add the
module dependency to deployments since it configures resteasy-spring for
deployments. However, if the subsystem is removed or is ignored by a
deployment processor, the above issues still exist. I filed
https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFLY-17921 as that seemed like an okay
solution. I do feel like at this point it's not quite enough though and we
still run the risk of breaking deployments.
I feel in the end it's best to just add the org.jboss.vfs module back to
deployments. While I agree it would be nice to not have this module as
dependency to deployments, it seems to be currently needed.
On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 8:57 AM Richard Opalka <ropalka(a)redhat.com> wrote:
--
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat
4:29 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 3:39 PM James Perkins <jperkins(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I agree. Earlier I said regarding this, "I'm hoping/praying that the only
reason we exposed it to deployments in the first place was for our own
internally classloading needs, not because user apps wanted access." TBH I
should have known better. :) In any case we now know it breaks working
applications so we should revert it.
Finding better solutions is fine, but I think we should start with
reverting and if we come up with better solutions we can implement those
then. Things like having the dependency added by the jaxrs subsystem (or by
some other one even more likely to be in the config if Spring is used)
aren't clearly better, so they need some thinking. I say not clearly better
because doing that is kind of hacky and also because a sufficiently broad
fix of that nature is likely not going to differ much in practice from
adding it to all deployments.
While I agree it would be nice to not have this module as dependency to
--
Brian Stansberry
Principal Architect, Red Hat JBoss EAP
He/Him/His
10:43 a.m.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 2:30 PM Brian Stansberry <
brian.stansberry(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Okay. I've created a JIRA, WFCORE-6326
<https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6326> [1], and PR
<https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly-core/pull/5472> to add the dependency
back.
[1]: https://issues.redhat.com/browse/WFCORE-6326
[2]: https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly-core/pull/5472
--
James R. Perkins
JBoss by Red Hat
702
days inactive
738
days old
11 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Brian Stansberry -
James Perkins -
Richard Opalka -
Yeray Borges Santana