Gavin King ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/secure/ViewProfile.jspa?accountId=557058%... ) *updated* an issue Hibernate ORM ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH?atlOrigin=eyJpIjoiYjA5YjAwNmZj... ) / Improvement ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-16715?atlOrigin=eyJpIjoiYjA5Yj... ) HHH-16715 ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-16715?atlOrigin=eyJpIjoiYjA5Yj... ) accept value() or element() in place of elements() and key() or index() in place of indices() ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-16715?atlOrigin=eyJpIjoiYjA5Yj... ) Change By: Gavin King ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/secure/ViewProfile.jspa?accountId=557058%... ) Writing the docs, I _still_ struggle to explain the role of the {{elements()}} and {{indices()}} functions, and I think they’re still quite confusing. So what if we finally deprecated them and let you just use {{element()}}, {{value()}}, {{index()}}, and {{key()}} instead? That is, we would accept: # {{max(element(experiment.measurements))}}, {{max(index(record.revisions))}} #  {{0.0 < every element(experiment.measurements)}}, {{1 = any index(record.revisions)}} # {{1 in index(record.revisions)}}, {{"hibernate" in element(document.tags)}} # {{exists(element(experiment.measurements))}} In case cases 1 and 4 , the revised syntax reads significantly better. In case 2, the revised syntax reads better if you use the {{every}} / {{any}} form of the quantifiers, or worse if you use the {{all}}/ {{some}} version. In case 3, the revised syntax reads definitely worse. But how useful is {{in}} with collections when we also have: *  {{member of}} , and * the option of writing {{1 = any index(record.revisions)}}. Or perhaps we could just make {{elements}} a synonym for {{element}} and {{indices}} a synonym for {{index}} and let you write whatever you like. Thoughts? ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-16715#add-comment?atlOrigin=ey... ) Add Comment ( https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HHH-16715#add-comment?atlOrigin=ey... ) Get Jira notifications on your phone! Download the Jira Cloud app for Android ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlassian.android.jira.... ) or iOS ( https://itunes.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1006972087?pt=696495&ct=Em... ) This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v1001.0.0-SNAPSHOT#100225- sha1:da60ad2 )