Hi all, On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> definition on quickstarts pom.xml Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the pom.xml file of the generated project. The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to use settings.xml. It will bring the following advantages: - It will make ease to contributors and users - Simplify the build. - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from the Quickstarts - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. As a roadmap for it: - We need to document that at the https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources - We need to update the contributing guides - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for us. Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ?

+1 We're doing the same in our examples, by adding a bootstrap repository: https://github.com/droolsjbpm/optaplanner/blob/master/optaplanner-example...

With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet OptaPlanner lead On 25-08-14 15:07, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: > On 25 Aug 2014, at 14:50, Rafael Benevides wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience >> and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues >> related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository >> to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >> >> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >> pom.xml file of the generated project. >> >> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on >> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying >> that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users >> can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's >> recommended to use settings.xml. >> >> It will bring the following advantages: >> - It will make ease to contributors and users >> - Simplify the build. >> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo >> since it will come from the Quickstarts >> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >> >> As a roadmap for it: >> - We need to document that at the >> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >> - We need to update the contributing guides >> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for >> us. >> >> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? > > No, as long as we keep that comment about its bad practice and don't > start moving it into shared parent pom's we should be fine :) > > > /max > http://about.me/maxandersen

I recall this issue Fred reported in the past: https://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG-5663 It was fixed in Maven 3.2.3 and not present in 3.1.x. If we add <repository> element we need to make sure people are using right Maven version.

Karel On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > Hi all, > > On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience > and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues > related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to > make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> > definition on quickstarts pom.xml > > Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the > pom.xml file of the generated project. > > The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the > https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every > quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that > this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test > the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to > use settings.xml. > > It will bring the following advantages: - It will make ease to > contributors and users - Simplify the build. - Simplify the Archetype > synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from > the Quickstarts - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml > repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. - We > can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. > > As a roadmap for it: > - We need to document that at the > https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources - > We need to update the contributing guides - We need to update QSTools > to do this update on all quickstarts for us. > Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? > Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? > > Thanks > -- > > Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer > JBoss Developer > M: +55-61-9269-6576 > > > > Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community > collaboration. See how it works at www.redhat.com >

Rafael, It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization are currently stripping off these repository definitions from quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them.

Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin would detect missing dependencies that would be available had the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically?

Paul. On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > Hi all, > > On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> definition on quickstarts pom.xml > > Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the pom.xml file of the generated project. > > The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to use settings.xml. > > It will bring the following advantages: > - It will make ease to contributors and users > - Simplify the build. > - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from the Quickstarts > - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. > - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. > > As a roadmap for it: > - We need to document that at the https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources > - We need to update the contributing guides > - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for us. > > Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? > > Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? > > Thanks > -- > > Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer > JBoss Developer > M: +55-61-9269-6576 > > <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> > > Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. > See how it works at www.redhat.com > > <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> > _______________________________________________ > jbossdeveloper mailing list > jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper Paul. -- Paul Robinson JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) JBoss, a Division of Red Hat Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > > On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > >> Rafael, >> >> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization are currently stripping off these repository definitions from quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. > > We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the <repositories> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM files for the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. So, adding this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible option.

> >> >> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin would detect missing dependencies that would be available had the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? > > I’m not so sure about this any more. > >> >> Paul. >> >> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>> >>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the pom.xml file of the generated project. >>> >>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>> >>> It will bring the following advantages: >>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>> - Simplify the build. >>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>> >>> As a roadmap for it: >>> - We need to document that at the https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for us. >>> >>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>> >>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>> >>> Thanks >>> -- >>> >>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>> JBoss Developer >>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>> >>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>> >>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. >>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>> >>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >> >> >> Paul. >> >> -- >> Paul Robinson >> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >> >> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> jbossdeveloper mailing list >> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper > Paul. -- Paul Robinson JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) JBoss, a Division of Red Hat Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland)

Hi, >> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >> <repositories> >> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >> files for >> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. So, >> adding >> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible option. > > Not all platforms use vman afaik. True. We won't use vman for B*MS/DV/FSW 6.1.x. However, our new tooling will remove the <repositories> section from the POM files that we process. We do this because it is a requirement from Project Wolf. If we want to add this to the quickstarts' POM's, then I think that we'll need to either: co-ordinate with the Wolf team, and update the tooling to handle an exception for quickstarts (or use some other process to align the quickstarts to the correct BOM)

or: find a way of making developers use a settings.xml file

On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > >> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Rafael, >>> >>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization are currently stripping off these repository definitions from quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... > Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: > > Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the <repositories> > from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM files for > the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. So, adding > this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible option. Not all platforms use vman afaik. > >>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin would detect missing dependencies that would be available had the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >> I’m not so sure about this any more. >> >>> Paul. >>> >>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>> >>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>> >>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>> >>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>> - Simplify the build. >>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>> >>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>> - We need to document that at the https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for us. >>>> >>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>> >>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>> JBoss Developer >>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>> >>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>> >>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. >>>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>>> >>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>> >>> Paul. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Robinson >>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>> >>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper > > Paul. > > -- > Paul Robinson > JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) > > JBoss, a Division of Red Hat > Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 > Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the instructions :) So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until they face a build problem. Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: > Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. > > I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without > running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we are > trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to configure the > settings.xml file with the content we provide? > > I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might impact > the quickstart testing and release process. > > On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Rafael, >>>>> >>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization are currently stripping off these repository definitions from quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>> >>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the <repositories> >>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM files for >>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. So, adding >>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible option. >> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >> >>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin would detect missing dependencies that would be available had the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>> >>>>> Paul. >>>>> >>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user experience and also because we have been constantly asked to support issues related to the setup of https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>> >>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>> >>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>> - We need to document that at the https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all quickstarts for us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>> >>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. >>>>>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>> Paul. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>> >>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>> Paul. >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Robinson >>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>> >>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >> _______________________________________________ >> jbossdeveloper mailing list >> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper > _______________________________________________ > jbossdeveloper mailing list > jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

Em 8/26/14, 17:56, Sande Gilda escreveu: > So they, like me, don't RTFM? :-) ahahahah > > I didn't realize it was an issue. Who is fielding the complaints for > this? I haven't been aware of any. And is it primarily people who use > the Maven command line or JDBS? I believe that it comes mostly by people using CLI since JBDS helps on this. This $subject was reborn by a request from Arun Gupta. It seems that someone tried to use our Quickstarts and had issues because e forgot to RTFM :) > > Wouldn't it be easier to try to make the Maven setting configuration > requirements more prominent? I really don't like the idea of adding > the Maven repository to the POM files and then telling them it's not a > good practice. If they see something, they will repeat it because, as > you said, they don't read the instructions. The whole purpose of the > quickstarts is to show how to code using best practices. It's the kind of relax thing that I don't think we will regret because it has the advantages that I mentioned. Besides the "not being recommended" I don't see any potential issues for us. I remember that you sent me (more than a year ago) some URLs that mention the cons on having <repository /> on pom.xml file. Do you mind sharing it again ? Thanks > > > On 08/26/2014 04:44 PM, Rafael Benevides wrote: >> The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the >> instructions :) >> >> So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until >> they face a build problem. >> >> Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>> Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. >>> >>> I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without >>> running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we are >>> trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to configure the >>> settings.xml file with the content we provide? >>> >>> I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might impact >>> the quickstart testing and release process. >>> >>> On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson >>>>>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Rafael, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding >>>>>>> repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on >>>>>>> enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of >>>>>>> discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it >>>>>>> would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few >>>>>>> subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization >>>>>>> are currently stripping off these repository definitions from >>>>>>> quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove >>>>> them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>>>> >>>>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >>>>> <repositories> >>>>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >>>>> files for >>>>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. >>>>> So, adding >>>>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible option. >>>> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >>>> >>>>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate >>>>>>> the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we >>>>>>> have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to >>>>>>> include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin >>>>>>> would detect missing dependencies that would be available had >>>>>>> the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There >>>>>>> might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides >>>>>>> <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user >>>>>>>> experience and also because we have been constantly asked to >>>>>>>> support issues related to the setup of >>>>>>>> https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the >>>>>>>> quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >>>>>>>> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >>>>>>>> pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >>>>>>>> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on >>>>>>>> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it >>>>>>>> saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it >>>>>>>> so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and >>>>>>>> that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the >>>>>>>> repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >>>>>>>> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>>>> - We need to document that at the >>>>>>>> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all >>>>>>>> quickstarts for us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community >>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>> Paul. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>> >>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>> 03798903 >>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >> _______________________________________________ >> jbossdeveloper mailing list >> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper > _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

Pete suggested this approach last fall. I will forward that email. Rafael, separately I am also forwarding the email discussed the cons of adding the <repository/> to the POM files. :-) On 08/27/2014 04:32 AM, Darran Lofthouse wrote: > Wonder if there is any maven plug in that can output a nice message if > a condition is not met. > > Regards, > Darran Lofthouse. > > > On 26/08/14 22:27, Rafael Benevides wrote: >> >> Em 8/26/14, 17:56, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>> So they, like me, don't RTFM? :-) >> ahahahah >>> >>> I didn't realize it was an issue. Who is fielding the complaints for >>> this? I haven't been aware of any. And is it primarily people who use >>> the Maven command line or JDBS? >> I believe that it comes mostly by people using CLI since JBDS helps >> on this. >> >> This $subject was reborn by a request from Arun Gupta. It seems that >> someone tried to use our Quickstarts and had issues because e forgot to >> RTFM :) >>> >>> Wouldn't it be easier to try to make the Maven setting configuration >>> requirements more prominent? I really don't like the idea of adding >>> the Maven repository to the POM files and then telling them it's not a >>> good practice. If they see something, they will repeat it because, as >>> you said, they don't read the instructions. The whole purpose of the >>> quickstarts is to show how to code using best practices. >> It's the kind of relax thing that I don't think we will regret because >> it has the advantages that I mentioned. Besides the "not being >> recommended" I don't see any potential issues for us. >> >> I remember that you sent me (more than a year ago) some URLs that >> mention the cons on having <repository /> on pom.xml file. Do you mind >> sharing it again ? >> >> Thanks >>> >>> >>> On 08/26/2014 04:44 PM, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>> The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the >>>> instructions :) >>>> >>>> So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until >>>> they face a build problem. >>>> >>>> Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>> Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. >>>>> >>>>> I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without >>>>> running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we >>>>> are >>>>> trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to >>>>> configure the >>>>> settings.xml file with the content we provide? >>>>> >>>>> I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might >>>>> impact >>>>> the quickstart testing and release process. >>>>> >>>>> On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson >>>>>>>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rafael, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding >>>>>>>>> repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on >>>>>>>>> enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of >>>>>>>>> discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it >>>>>>>>> would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few >>>>>>>>> subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization >>>>>>>>> are currently stripping off these repository definitions from >>>>>>>>> quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>>>>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>>>>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove >>>>>>> them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >>>>>>> <repositories> >>>>>>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >>>>>>> files for >>>>>>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. >>>>>>> So, adding >>>>>>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible >>>>>>> option. >>>>>> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate >>>>>>>>> the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we >>>>>>>>> have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to >>>>>>>>> include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin >>>>>>>>> would detect missing dependencies that would be available had >>>>>>>>> the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There >>>>>>>>> might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>>>>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides >>>>>>>>> <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user >>>>>>>>>> experience and also because we have been constantly asked to >>>>>>>>>> support issues related to the setup of >>>>>>>>>> https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the >>>>>>>>>> quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >>>>>>>>>> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >>>>>>>>>> pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >>>>>>>>>> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on >>>>>>>>>> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it >>>>>>>>>> saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it >>>>>>>>>> so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and >>>>>>>>>> that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the >>>>>>>>>> repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >>>>>>>>>> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>>>>>> - We need to document that at the >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all >>>>>>>>>> quickstarts for us. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community >>>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>>>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> jbossdeveloper mailing list >> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >> > _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

I think it is simpler to put the repo in the POM. We have to explain either approach to our users, so we should go with the simpler to explain and understand. On 27 Aug 2014, at 13:29, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > Pete, > > You mentioned this week that you no longer think the maven plugin was a good idea. What's your thinking now? > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 12:52, Sande Gilda <sgilda(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > >> Pete suggested this approach last fall. I will forward that email. >> >> Rafael, separately I am also forwarding the email discussed the cons of >> adding the <repository/> to the POM files. :-) >> >> >> On 08/27/2014 04:32 AM, Darran Lofthouse wrote: >>> Wonder if there is any maven plug in that can output a nice message if >>> a condition is not met. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Darran Lofthouse. >>> >>> >>> On 26/08/14 22:27, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>> Em 8/26/14, 17:56, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>> So they, like me, don't RTFM? :-) >>>> ahahahah >>>>> I didn't realize it was an issue. Who is fielding the complaints for >>>>> this? I haven't been aware of any. And is it primarily people who use >>>>> the Maven command line or JDBS? >>>> I believe that it comes mostly by people using CLI since JBDS helps >>>> on this. >>>> >>>> This $subject was reborn by a request from Arun Gupta. It seems that >>>> someone tried to use our Quickstarts and had issues because e forgot to >>>> RTFM :) >>>>> Wouldn't it be easier to try to make the Maven setting configuration >>>>> requirements more prominent? I really don't like the idea of adding >>>>> the Maven repository to the POM files and then telling them it's not a >>>>> good practice. If they see something, they will repeat it because, as >>>>> you said, they don't read the instructions. The whole purpose of the >>>>> quickstarts is to show how to code using best practices. >>>> It's the kind of relax thing that I don't think we will regret because >>>> it has the advantages that I mentioned. Besides the "not being >>>> recommended" I don't see any potential issues for us. >>>> >>>> I remember that you sent me (more than a year ago) some URLs that >>>> mention the cons on having <repository /> on pom.xml file. Do you mind >>>> sharing it again ? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On 08/26/2014 04:44 PM, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>>>> The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the >>>>>> instructions :) >>>>>> >>>>>> So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until >>>>>> they face a build problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>>>> Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without >>>>>>> running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to >>>>>>> configure the >>>>>>> settings.xml file with the content we provide? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might >>>>>>> impact >>>>>>> the quickstart testing and release process. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rafael, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding >>>>>>>>>>> repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on >>>>>>>>>>> enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com. There was quite a bit of >>>>>>>>>>> discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it >>>>>>>>>>> would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few >>>>>>>>>>> subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization >>>>>>>>>>> are currently stripping off these repository definitions from >>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>>>>>>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>>>>>>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove >>>>>>>>> them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >>>>>>>>> <repositories> >>>>>>>>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >>>>>>>>> files for >>>>>>>>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. >>>>>>>>> So, adding >>>>>>>>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible >>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate >>>>>>>>>>> the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we >>>>>>>>>>> have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to >>>>>>>>>>> include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin >>>>>>>>>>> would detect missing dependencies that would be available had >>>>>>>>>>> the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There >>>>>>>>>>> might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>>>>>>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides >>>>>>>>>>> <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user >>>>>>>>>>>> experience and also because we have been constantly asked to >>>>>>>>>>>> support issues related to the setup of >>>>>>>>>>>> https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository to make the >>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >>>>>>>>>>>> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >>>>>>>>>>>> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ defined on >>>>>>>>>>>> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it >>>>>>>>>>>> saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it >>>>>>>>>>>> so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and >>>>>>>>>>>> that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>>>>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the >>>>>>>>>>>> repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>>>>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >>>>>>>>>>>> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>>>>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to document that at the >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all >>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts for us. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>>>>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community >>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>>>>>> See how it works at www.redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> jbossdeveloper mailing list >> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper > > Paul. > > -- > Paul Robinson > JBoss Developer Team Lead (www.jboss.org) > > JBoss, a Division of Red Hat > Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 > Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >

After working on a PoC, I prepared QSTools to inject the <repository /> definition in a separated profile as we do for Archetypes: https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-eap-archetypes/blob/6.4.x-develo...

QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com/earlyaccess/ and - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also for the -develop branch.

This will generate a management issue because those extra repos will need to be removed for Quickstarts .GA distribution. If we instruct contributors to place the earlyaccess and temp-maven-repo on settings.xml and add techpreview to pom.xml it can become confusing. Summary: I think that injecting <repository /> would be nice but it will bring an extra management effort and/or some sort of confusion. So it has more cons than pros. Well, JBDS already brings a Wizard to customize the settings.xml. I think that CLI users have the expertise to know that it's probably a missing configuration than a Quickstarts bug. Maybe we need to think a little bit more on other solutions for this issue for CLI users. Em 8/27/14, 12:18, Pete Muir escreveu: > I think it is simpler to put the repo in the POM. We have to explain either approach to our users, so we should go with the simpler to explain and understand. > > On 27 Aug 2014, at 13:29, Paul Robinson > <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; > wrote: > > >> Pete, >> >> You mentioned this week that you no longer think the maven plugin was a good idea. What's your thinking now? >> >> On 27 Aug 2014, at 12:52, Sande Gilda >> <sgilda(a)redhat.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >> >>> Pete suggested this approach last fall. I will forward that email. >>> >>> Rafael, separately I am also forwarding the email discussed the cons of >>> adding the <repository/> to the POM files. :-) >>> >>> >>> On 08/27/2014 04:32 AM, Darran Lofthouse wrote: >>> >>>> Wonder if there is any maven plug in that can output a nice message if >>>> a condition is not met. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Darran Lofthouse. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26/08/14 22:27, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>> >>>>> Em 8/26/14, 17:56, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>> >>>>>> So they, like me, don't RTFM? :-) >>>>>> >>>>> ahahahah >>>>> >>>>>> I didn't realize it was an issue. Who is fielding the complaints for >>>>>> this? I haven't been aware of any. And is it primarily people who use >>>>>> the Maven command line or JDBS? >>>>>> >>>>> I believe that it comes mostly by people using CLI since JBDS helps >>>>> on this. >>>>> >>>>> This $subject was reborn by a request from Arun Gupta. It seems that >>>>> someone tried to use our Quickstarts and had issues because e forgot to >>>>> RTFM :) >>>>> >>>>>> Wouldn't it be easier to try to make the Maven setting configuration >>>>>> requirements more prominent? I really don't like the idea of adding >>>>>> the Maven repository to the POM files and then telling them it's not a >>>>>> good practice. If they see something, they will repeat it because, as >>>>>> you said, they don't read the instructions. The whole purpose of the >>>>>> quickstarts is to show how to code using best practices. >>>>>> >>>>> It's the kind of relax thing that I don't think we will regret because >>>>> it has the advantages that I mentioned. Besides the "not being >>>>> recommended" I don't see any potential issues for us. >>>>> >>>>> I remember that you sent me (more than a year ago) some URLs that >>>>> mention the cons on having <repository /> on pom.xml file. Do you mind >>>>> sharing it again ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08/26/2014 04:44 PM, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the >>>>>>> instructions :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until >>>>>>> they face a build problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without >>>>>>>> running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to >>>>>>>> configure the >>>>>>>> settings.xml file with the content we provide? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might >>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>> the quickstart testing and release process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rafael, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding >>>>>>>>>>>> repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>> . There was quite a bit of >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it >>>>>>>>>>>> would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few >>>>>>>>>>>> subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization >>>>>>>>>>>> are currently stripping off these repository definitions from >>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove >>>>>>>>>> them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >>>>>>>>>> <repositories> >>>>>>>>>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >>>>>>>>>> files for >>>>>>>>>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. >>>>>>>>>> So, adding >>>>>>>>>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible >>>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate >>>>>>>>>>>> the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we >>>>>>>>>>>> have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to >>>>>>>>>>>> include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin >>>>>>>>>>>> would detect missing dependencies that would be available had >>>>>>>>>>>> the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There >>>>>>>>>>>> might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience and also because we have been constantly asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>> support issues related to the setup of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository >>>>>>>>>>>>> to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >>>>>>>>>>>>> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> defined on >>>>>>>>>>>>> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it >>>>>>>>>>>>> saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it >>>>>>>>>>>>> so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and >>>>>>>>>>>>> that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>>>>>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the >>>>>>>>>>>>> repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>>>>>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >>>>>>>>>>>>> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to document that at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts for us. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>>>>>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community >>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>>>>>>> See how it works at >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >>>>>>>>>>>> www.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >>>>>>>>>> www.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>> >>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>> >>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >> >> Paul. >> >> -- >> Paul Robinson >> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >> www.jboss.org >> ) >> >> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >> >>

Em 9/8/14, 13:40, Pete Muir escreveu: > On 8 Sep 2014, at 16:51, Rafael Benevides <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > >> After working on a PoC, I prepared QSTools to inject the <repository /> definition in a separated profile as we do for Archetypes: https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-eap-archetypes/blob/6.4.x-develo... > When does the injection happen? For Archetypes, during the build, after QSTools synchs it with the Quickstarts: https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-eap-archetypes/blob/6.4.x-develo... For Quickstarts, it was a new Fixer added to the :fix goal. -> https://github.com/jboss-developer/maven-qstools-plugin/blob/1675b26cb2e3... > >> QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 >> >> But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >> - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >> for the -develop branch. > I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. So I assume that we need to inject http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml

> >> This will generate a management issue because those extra repos will need to be removed for Quickstarts .GA distribution. >> >> If we instruct contributors to place the earlyaccess and temp-maven-repo on settings.xml and add techpreview to pom.xml it can become confusing. >> >> Summary: I think that injecting <repository /> would be nice but it will bring an extra management effort and/or some sort of confusion. So it has more cons than pros. >> >> Well, JBDS already brings a Wizard to customize the settings.xml. I think that CLI users have the expertise to know that it's probably a missing configuration than a Quickstarts bug. >> >> Maybe we need to think a little bit more on other solutions for this issue for CLI users. >> >> Em 8/27/14, 12:18, Pete Muir escreveu: >>> I think it is simpler to put the repo in the POM. We have to explain either approach to our users, so we should go with the simpler to explain and understand. >>> >>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 13:29, Paul Robinson >>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Pete, >>>> >>>> You mentioned this week that you no longer think the maven plugin was a good idea. What's your thinking now? >>>> >>>> On 27 Aug 2014, at 12:52, Sande Gilda >>>> <sgilda(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Pete suggested this approach last fall. I will forward that email. >>>>> >>>>> Rafael, separately I am also forwarding the email discussed the cons of >>>>> adding the <repository/> to the POM files. :-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 08/27/2014 04:32 AM, Darran Lofthouse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Wonder if there is any maven plug in that can output a nice message if >>>>>> a condition is not met. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Darran Lofthouse. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26/08/14 22:27, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Em 8/26/14, 17:56, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So they, like me, don't RTFM? :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ahahahah >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I didn't realize it was an issue. Who is fielding the complaints for >>>>>>>> this? I haven't been aware of any. And is it primarily people who use >>>>>>>> the Maven command line or JDBS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe that it comes mostly by people using CLI since JBDS helps >>>>>>> on this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This $subject was reborn by a request from Arun Gupta. It seems that >>>>>>> someone tried to use our Quickstarts and had issues because e forgot to >>>>>>> RTFM :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be easier to try to make the Maven setting configuration >>>>>>>> requirements more prominent? I really don't like the idea of adding >>>>>>>> the Maven repository to the POM files and then telling them it's not a >>>>>>>> good practice. If they see something, they will repeat it because, as >>>>>>>> you said, they don't read the instructions. The whole purpose of the >>>>>>>> quickstarts is to show how to code using best practices. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the kind of relax thing that I don't think we will regret because >>>>>>> it has the advantages that I mentioned. Besides the "not being >>>>>>> recommended" I don't see any potential issues for us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember that you sent me (more than a year ago) some URLs that >>>>>>> mention the cons on having <repository /> on pom.xml file. Do you mind >>>>>>> sharing it again ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08/26/2014 04:44 PM, Rafael Benevides wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The problem that we're trying to solve is that users don't read the >>>>>>>>> instructions :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, they don't know that they have to configure the settings.xml until >>>>>>>>> they face a build problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Em 8/26/14, 14:33, Sande Gilda escreveu: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I'm just back from PTO and catching up on this thread. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have run the quickstarts using both command line and JDBS without >>>>>>>>>> running into any problems, so I'm not really clear what problem we >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> trying to solve. Are there issues with asking the user to >>>>>>>>>> configure the >>>>>>>>>> settings.xml file with the content we provide? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm adding Paul and Nikoleta to the thread to see how this might >>>>>>>>>> impact >>>>>>>>>> the quickstart testing and release process. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 08/26/2014 05:27 AM, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:26, Paul Robinson <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 10:18, Pete Muir <pmuir(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Aug 2014, at 09:27, Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <paul.robinson(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rafael, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It'd be worth reading the "[Wolf] Revisting embedding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> repositories in POMs for developer materials" thread on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise-maven-list(a)redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . There was quite a bit of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion about doing this. The general opinion was that it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a huge win for usability, but there are quite a few >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subtle problems with the approach. For example, productization >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are currently stripping off these repository definitions from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts, so any solution is going to need to work for them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We don’t currently put any repo definitions in quickstarts... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer. Productization would remove >>>>>>>>>>>> them if they exist. Quote from Julian Coleman: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right. Note, also, that the vman tool will strip out the >>>>>>>>>>>> <repositories> >>>>>>>>>>>> from the POM files that it processes. This means that all POM >>>>>>>>>>>> files for >>>>>>>>>>>> the IP builds (FSW/DV/BPMS) will not contain repositories. >>>>>>>>>>>> So, adding >>>>>>>>>>>> this information to settings.xml seems the only sensible >>>>>>>>>>>> option. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Not all platforms use vman afaik. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pete came up with an alternative approach that helps to educate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the developer about the configuration, in a better way then we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ATM (expecting them to read the docs). This approach was to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> include a plugin (that lives in maven central). This plugin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would detect missing dependencies that would be available had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the correct repository been defined in the settings.xml. There >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might also be an option to fix the configuration automatically? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m not so sure about this any more. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Aug 2014, at 13:50, Rafael Benevides >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <benevides(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On a look for a continuous improvement on developer user >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience and also because we have been constantly asked to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support issues related to the setup of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://access.redhat.com/maven-repository >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts work, we want to include the <repository /> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition on quickstarts pom.xml >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually the Archetypes already have the <repository /> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml file of the generated project. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea here is to have the <repository /> with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> defined on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every quickstarts's pom.xml file with a comment on top of it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saying that this approach is not recommended but we included it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so users can test the quickstarts without further setup and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it's recommended to use settings.xml. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It will bring the following advantages: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - It will make ease to contributors and users >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the build. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Simplify the Archetype synch process / No need to inject the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repo since it will come from the Quickstarts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We can add a pre-defined comment above the pom.xml repository >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition to explain that we don't recommend that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We can also add this "comment" to QSTools to check/fix it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a roadmap for it: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to document that at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/jboss-developer/jboss-developer-shared-resources >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update the contributing guides >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We need to update QSTools to do this update on all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstarts for us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max, Is there any restrictions on JBDS side ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone else have any objections/comments on this $subject ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rafael Benevides | Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M: +55-61-9269-6576 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <{a8aabf3a-4467-4e37-9bc5-48b1d7b494a2}_LATAM_RedHat.jpg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> collaboration. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See how it works at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.redhat.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <linkedin.png> <youtube.png> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Robinson >>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >>>>>>>>>>>> www.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. >>>>>>>>>>>> 03798903 >>>>>>>>>>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt >>>>>>>>>>>> Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> jbossdeveloper mailing list >>>>> >>>>> jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper >>>> Paul. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Paul Robinson >>>> JBoss Developer Team Lead ( >>>> www.jboss.org >>>> ) >>>> >>>> JBoss, a Division of Red Hat >>>> Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 >>>> Directors:Michael Cunningham (US), Charles Peters (US), Matt Parson (US), Paul Hickey (Ireland)

I could be wrong but I think that QE will not agree to have the "earlyaccess”.

Then we will have to remove them before the Quickstarts is ready for G.A. Otherwise Quickstarts will be shipped with both repos. And removing XML snippets without breaking ( the XML or the build) is always harder. Plus, it will be harder to convince other Quickstarts owners that they have to do the same (QSTools will complain about their QSs) because that it's part of our JBoss Developer Guidelines. Em 9/8/14, 13:48, Pete Muir escreveu: >>>> >>>But after placinghttp://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding -https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >>>> >>>-http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >>>> >>>for the -develop branch. >>> >>I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. >> >So I assume that we need to injecthttp://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml > Well, we may want to add earlyaccess too. WDYT? >

>>> >>> QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 >>> >>> >>> >>> But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >>> >>> - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >>> >>> for the -develop branch. >> >> I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. > > So I assume that we need to inject http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml Well, we may want to add earlyaccess too. WDYT?

On 9 Sep 2014, at 11:35, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > On 8.9.2014 18:48, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>> QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >>>>>>>> - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >>>>>>>> for the -develop branch. >>>>>> I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. >>>> So I assume that we need to inject http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml >> Well, we may want to add earlyaccess too. WDYT? >> > Why we should have it there for end users? earlyaccess repository is > just exceptional resource for public Betas, isn't it? Isn't that > confusing to have it there even for traditional GA releases? OTOH this is not really the way Maven works. In Maven you tend to mix up all releases, and use version numbers to control what gets pulled in.

> -- > Marek Novotny > -- > WFK and Seam Product Lead > > Red Hat Czech s.r.o. > Purkynova 99 > 612 45 Brno > > _______________________________________________ > jbossdeveloper mailing list > jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper

On 9 Sep 2014, at 12:54, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > On 9.9.2014 13:00, Pete Muir wrote: >> On 9 Sep 2014, at 11:35, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> On 8.9.2014 18:48, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>>>> QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >>>>>>>>>> - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >>>>>>>>>> for the -develop branch. >>>>>>>> I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. >>>>>> So I assume that we need to inject http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml >>>> Well, we may want to add earlyaccess too. WDYT? >>>> >>> Why we should have it there for end users? earlyaccess repository is >>> just exceptional resource for public Betas, isn't it? Isn't that >>> confusing to have it there even for traditional GA releases? >> OTOH this is not really the way Maven works. In Maven you tend to mix up all releases, and use version numbers to control what gets pulled in. > Even I agree with your statement, do we have a clean description there > what could end users understand why we have a bunch or repositories > there instead of one? We declared today that you can use our product > maven repository (online techpreview/all or offline zipped repository) > plus Central and then in Quickstarts we use "another" repository. > > I agree that injected repository will help to an end user, but wouldn't > it be simple just as one repository? > > you can easily manage versions in BOM imports etc. but for the learning > purpose it can be confusing. WDYT? Hmm. People are used to adding a second repo for snapshots, which is kinda similar.

On 9 Sep 2014, at 13:06, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > On 9.9.2014 13:56, Pete Muir wrote: >> On 9 Sep 2014, at 12:54, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> On 9.9.2014 13:00, Pete Muir wrote: >>>> On 9 Sep 2014, at 11:35, Marek Novotny <mnovotny(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8.9.2014 18:48, Pete Muir wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> QSTools ticket: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JDF-762 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But after placing http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ at the Quickstarts, I realized that we won't solve the user experience issues without adding - https://maven.repository.redhat.com// and >>>>>>>>>>>> - http://jboss-developer.github.io/temp-maven-repo/ also >>>>>>>>>>>> for the -develop branch. >>>>>>>>>> I’m not sure we need to worry about people using the -develop branch. This is for contributors only, and they can read the instructions normally. >>>>>>>> So I assume that we need to inject http://maven.repository.redhat.com/techpreview/all/ in pom.xml and make them to add the others in settings.xml >>>>>> Well, we may want to add earlyaccess too. WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>> Why we should have it there for end users? earlyaccess repository is >>>>> just exceptional resource for public Betas, isn't it? Isn't that >>>>> confusing to have it there even for traditional GA releases? >>>> OTOH this is not really the way Maven works. In Maven you tend to mix up all releases, and use version numbers to control what gets pulled in. >>> Even I agree with your statement, do we have a clean description there >>> what could end users understand why we have a bunch or repositories >>> there instead of one? We declared today that you can use our product >>> maven repository (online techpreview/all or offline zipped repository) >>> plus Central and then in Quickstarts we use "another" repository. >>> >>> I agree that injected repository will help to an end user, but wouldn't >>> it be simple just as one repository? >>> >>> you can easily manage versions in BOM imports etc. but for the learning >>> purpose it can be confusing. WDYT? >> Hmm. People are used to adding a second repo for snapshots, which is kinda similar. >> > What are our target group of developers for quicksktarts? Newbies or > experienced devs? > > I may see it more like short and simple bootstrap for newbies, but your > view is probably different. Agreed on newbies. Hence why we don’t want to make people add/remove repos, but have a sensible default configured for them. > > -- > Marek Novotny > -- > WFK and Seam Product Lead > > Red Hat Czech s.r.o. > Purkynova 99 > 612 45 Brno _______________________________________________ jbossdeveloper mailing list jbossdeveloper(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbossdeveloper