From: "Paul Leacu" <pleacu(a)redhat.com&gt; To: "Kevin Conner" <kconner(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Max Rydahl Andersen" <max.andersen(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Aileen Cunningham" <aileenc(a)redhat.com&gt; Cc: "soa-pm-list List" <soa-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "jbosstools-dev jbosstools-dev" <jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt;, jbds-is-pm-list(a)redhat.com, "JDV-PM Mailing List" <jdv-pm(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mustafa Musaji" <mmusaji(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Fuse-pm-list" <fuse-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "bpms-pm-list" <bpms-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt; Sent: Friday, 14 November, 2014 8:43:18 PM Subject: integration stack component installation Greetings, At the JBoss f2f last week in Brno there was a meeting to discuss the ease of installation issue (or lack thereof) of integration stack components. Presented here is a summary of the issue and a proposed solution as drafted by the team. Although members of platform architecture, engineering, PM and QE were present - the solution is simply proposed at this time. We also plan to evolve the solution over time - so that the issue will be addressed more fully. Your comments are welcome! Thanks, --paull ------ Issue: Finding integration stack components to install is too difficult. This was made clear by Fuse Tooling usability reviews and is discussed in detail here: https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-977658 Proposed Solution: - Extend Eclipse Marketplace by enabling JBTIS/ JBDSIS entries for product groupings and establish JBTIS/ JBDSIS installers based on JBT/ JBDS. Discussion: As it exists today, users who search within the standard Eclipse Marketplace for keywords such as "Camel Editor" or "Fuse" are directed to the JBDS or JBT Kepler installers. Users must select the "more info" link on the Marketplace installer page and then page down to find this text: "Also available is the JBoss Developer Studio Integration Stack, which includes support for SwitchYard, Camel, Fuse, Fabric8, Drools, jBPM, ModeShape, Teiid and more. It is available from within JBoss Central, via the Software/update tab." This is the first mention of Fuse and directs the user to install JBDS (or JBT) and then, after installing/ restarting and as a separate action, use the Software/Update tab within JBoss Central to find the Fuse tooling. In this case Fuse is part of: "JBoss Integration and SOA Development" - (The category description does mention Fuse.) Solution Details: The extended IS-aware Eclipse Marketplace entries will reference the existing update site and when selecting "Install" you will get a yet-to-be-defined subset of the Eclipse features that will match what you would get when using the install from JBoss Central today - but without having to install Developer Studio plugins separately first. The installer option is to be based on the JBDS installer and will be made available from the CSP/jboss.org download next to the existing installer. JBDS 7.1.1.GA/JBDSIS 7.1.0.GA (Kepler) - What can we do today? - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-354 The least required changes would leave the user with a single JBDSIS installer and a single JBTIS installer when searching for "Fuse" or "Data Virtualization" for example. Upon selecting one of these installers the user would see all available installation-units (features) available in the combined integration stack. Users could then select all or just the fuse tooling IUs. This is the "laundry list" approach. JBDS 8.1.0.GA/JBDSIS 8.0.x.GA (Luna) - Short term for upcoming tooling releases. - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-355 * Add a new com.jboss.devstudio.core.central.feature that packages up the com.jboss.devstudio.core.central plugin and include this in com.jboss.devstudio.core.feature (this is missing today). * Enable usage tracking in JBTIS components' MANIFEST.MF files (this is under way now) - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-290 * create three connectors, each based on the content in JBDSIS discovery plugin.xml's top three connector categories - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-357 1. Fuse ServiceWorks - ref: JBoss Integration and SOA Development 2. BRMS/BPMS - ref: JBoss Business Process and Rules Development 3. JBoss Data Virtualization - ref: JBoss Data Virtualization Development ** A1: PMs (hey Alan) must come up with appropriate names for 1-3 above. The naming convention should be "compatible" with a Mobile tools install that have been requested too. The user searches for "Fuse" from Marketplace and immediately finds JBDSIS. The installer allows the user to select from 1-3 above. The user selects "Fuse ServiceWorks" (if that's the name) by selecting the radio button (or selects all easily). JBDS 9.0.0.GA/JBDSIS 9.0.x.GA (Mars) - Make it better - continue to evolve the solution - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-356/ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBIDE-18734 Refactor project examples in Central to remove dependencies on portal & seam (size reduction - avoid installing unnecessary plugins). Similar experience to Luna except the installer is much leaner. No default perspective change - potential stretch goal. This subject went back and forth. The user has an established perspective when they began the installation process and may be installing multiple features which may very well have different default perspectives. Once users manually set their perspective it will be remembered the next time they start the tool. Alternatively, the installer option definitely should be able to do this. When installing into an existing Eclipse that is not that trivial, which is one of the reasons why JBoss Central exists. Central shows up across perspectives and when the user selects Fuse the Fuse project can declare it and would ask users if they want to move to the Fuse perspective. We could also look into adding "roles" to Central to make it adopt better depending on what interest you have as a user. --paull

From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <manderse(a)redhat.com&gt; To: "Aileen Cunningham" <aileenc(a)redhat.com&gt; Cc: "soa-pm-list List" <soa-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "jbosstools-dev jbosstools-dev" <jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt;, jbds-is-pm-list(a)redhat.com, "JDV-PM Mailing List" <jdv-pm(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mustafa Musaji" <mmusaji(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Fuse-pm-list" <fuse-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "bpms-pm-list" <bpms-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt; Sent: Monday, 17 November, 2014 11:47:13 AM Subject: Re: integration stack component installation On 17 Nov 2014, at 11:04, Aileen Cunningham wrote: > Hi Paul, > > when you say "establish JBTIS/ JBDSIS installers based on JBT/ JBDS" > are you talking about a combined installer where you can install JBDS > + IS in 1 action? Yes. But this requires work/QE resources. > People can find the runtime download on JBoss.org fairly easily so > what we need to get to is a 2nd big green download button on the Fuse > product page that installs the relevant Tooling. Can we start by putting existing devstudio installer there now ? (last time I looked it was not even mentioning it) I believe your team is "owner" of those pages or at least should be able to request the best changes to them. If not let me know what pages you believe should be changed and I can help track it down. /max > > best regards, > Aileen > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Leacu" <pleacu(a)redhat.com&gt; >> To: "Kevin Conner" <kconner(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Max Rydahl Andersen" >> <max.andersen(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Aileen Cunningham" >> <aileenc(a)redhat.com&gt; >> Cc: "soa-pm-list List" <soa-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "jbosstools-dev >> jbosstools-dev" <jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt;, >> jbds-is-pm-list(a)redhat.com, "JDV-PM Mailing List" >> <jdv-pm(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mustafa Musaji" <mmusaji(a)redhat.com&gt;, >> "Fuse-pm-list" <fuse-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "bpms-pm-list" >> <bpms-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt; >> Sent: Friday, 14 November, 2014 8:43:18 PM >> Subject: integration stack component installation >> >> >> Greetings, >> At the JBoss f2f last week in Brno there was a meeting to discuss >> the >> ease of installation >> issue (or lack thereof) of integration stack components. Presented >> here >> is a summary of the >> issue and a proposed solution as drafted by the team. Although >> members of >> platform architecture, >> engineering, PM and QE were present - the solution is simply proposed >> at >> this time. We also >> plan to evolve the solution over time - so that the issue will be >> addressed more fully. >> >> Your comments are welcome! >> >> Thanks, >> --paull >> >> ------ >> >> Issue: Finding integration stack components to install is too >> difficult. >> This was made >> clear by Fuse Tooling usability reviews and is discussed in >> detail >> here: >> >> https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-977658 >> >> Proposed Solution: >> >> - Extend Eclipse Marketplace by enabling JBTIS/ JBDSIS entries for >> product >> groupings and establish >> JBTIS/ JBDSIS installers based on JBT/ JBDS. >> >> Discussion: >> As it exists today, users who search within the standard Eclipse >> Marketplace for keywords >> such as "Camel Editor" or "Fuse" are directed to the JBDS or JBT >> Kepler >> installers. Users >> must select the "more info" link on the Marketplace installer page >> and >> then page down to >> find this text: >> >> "Also available is the JBoss Developer Studio Integration Stack, >> which >> includes support for SwitchYard, Camel, Fuse, Fabric8, Drools, >> jBPM, >> ModeShape, Teiid and more. It is available from within JBoss >> Central, >> via the Software/update tab." >> >> This is the first mention of Fuse and directs the user to install >> JBDS >> (or JBT) and then, >> after installing/ restarting and as a separate action, use the >> Software/Update tab within >> JBoss Central to find the Fuse tooling. In this case Fuse is part >> of: >> >> "JBoss Integration and SOA Development" - (The category description >> does >> mention Fuse.) >> >> Solution Details: >> >> The extended IS-aware Eclipse Marketplace entries will reference >> the >> existing update site >> and when selecting "Install" you will get a yet-to-be-defined >> subset of >> the Eclipse features that >> will match what you would get when using the install from JBoss >> Central >> today - but without having >> to install Developer Studio plugins separately first. >> >> The installer option is to be based on the JBDS installer and will >> be >> made available from the CSP/jboss.org >> download next to the existing installer. >> >> JBDS 7.1.1.GA/JBDSIS 7.1.0.GA (Kepler) - What can we do today? >> >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-354 >> >> The least required changes would leave the user with a single >> JBDSIS >> installer and a single >> JBTIS installer when searching for "Fuse" or "Data >> Virtualization" for >> example. Upon selecting >> one of these installers the user would see all available >> installation-units (features) available >> in the combined integration stack. Users could then select all >> or >> just the fuse tooling IUs. >> This is the "laundry list" approach. >> >> JBDS 8.1.0.GA/JBDSIS 8.0.x.GA (Luna) - Short term for upcoming >> tooling >> releases. >> >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-355 >> >> * Add a new com.jboss.devstudio.core.central.feature that >> packages up >> the com.jboss.devstudio.core.central >> plugin and include this in com.jboss.devstudio.core.feature >> (this is >> missing today). >> * Enable usage tracking in JBTIS components' MANIFEST.MF files >> (this >> is under way now) >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-290 >> * create three connectors, each based on the content in JBDSIS >> discovery plugin.xml's top three >> connector categories >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-357 >> >> 1. Fuse ServiceWorks - ref: JBoss Integration and SOA >> Development >> 2. BRMS/BPMS - ref: JBoss Business Process and >> Rules >> Development >> 3. JBoss Data Virtualization - ref: JBoss Data Virtualization >> Development >> >> ** A1: PMs (hey Alan) must come up with appropriate names for 1-3 >> above. The naming convention should be >> "compatible" with a Mobile tools install that have been >> requested too. >> >> The user searches for "Fuse" from Marketplace and immediately >> finds >> JBDSIS. The installer allows >> the user to select from 1-3 above. The user selects "Fuse >> ServiceWorks" (if that's the name) by >> selecting the radio button (or selects all easily). >> >> JBDS 9.0.0.GA/JBDSIS 9.0.x.GA (Mars) - Make it better - continue to >> evolve the solution >> >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-356/ >> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBIDE-18734 >> Refactor project examples in Central to remove dependencies on >> portal >> & seam (size reduction - avoid >> installing unnecessary plugins). >> >> Similar experience to Luna except the installer is much leaner. >> >> No default perspective change - potential stretch goal. >> >> This subject went back and forth. The user has an established >> perspective when they began the installation >> process and may be installing multiple features which may very well >> have >> different default perspectives. >> Once users manually set their perspective it will be remembered the >> next >> time they start the tool. >> >> Alternatively, the installer option definitely should be able to do >> this. When installing into an existing >> Eclipse that is not that trivial, which is one of the reasons why >> JBoss >> Central exists. Central shows >> up across perspectives and when the user selects Fuse the Fuse >> project >> can declare it and would ask users >> if they want to move to the Fuse perspective. >> >> We could also look into adding "roles" to Central to make it adopt >> better depending on what interest you >> have as a user. >> >> --paull >> >> /max http://about.me/maxandersen

That was part of it - some others did not even know that they could download *any* tools today. The fact the main Fuse page does not even mention it before several pages down is something that can be fixed easily and today versus new installer setup and then still need to add link to the fuse pages ;) /max > -- Len > > ----- Original Message ----- > > | From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <manderse(a)redhat.com&gt; > | To: "Aileen Cunningham" <aileenc(a)redhat.com&gt; > | Cc: "soa-pm-list List" <soa-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "jbosstools-dev > | jbosstools-dev" <jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt;, > | jbds-is-pm-list(a)redhat.com, "JDV-PM Mailing List" > <jdv-pm(a)redhat.com&gt;, > | "Mustafa Musaji" <mmusaji(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Fuse-pm-list" > | <fuse-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "bpms-pm-list" <bpms-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt; > | Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:47:13 AM > | Subject: Re: integration stack component installation > > | On 17 Nov 2014, at 11:04, Aileen Cunningham wrote: > > | > Hi Paul, > | > > | > when you say "establish JBTIS/ JBDSIS installers based on JBT/ > JBDS" > | > are you talking about a combined installer where you can install > JBDS > | > + IS in 1 action? > > | Yes. But this requires work/QE resources. > > | > People can find the runtime download on JBoss.org fairly easily so > | > what we need to get to is a 2nd big green download button on the > Fuse > | > product page that installs the relevant Tooling. > > | Can we start by putting existing devstudio installer there now ? > (last > | time I looked it was not even mentioning it) > > | I believe your team is "owner" of those pages or at least should be > able > | to request the best changes to them. > > | If not let me know what pages you believe should be changed and I > can > | help track it down. > > | /max > > | > > | > best regards, > | > Aileen > | > > | > > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | >> From: "Paul Leacu" <pleacu(a)redhat.com&gt; > | >> To: "Kevin Conner" <kconner(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Max Rydahl Andersen" > | >> <max.andersen(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Aileen Cunningham" > | >> <aileenc(a)redhat.com&gt; > | >> Cc: "soa-pm-list List" <soa-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "jbosstools-dev > | >> jbosstools-dev" <jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt;, > | >> jbds-is-pm-list(a)redhat.com, "JDV-PM Mailing List" > | >> <jdv-pm(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mustafa Musaji" <mmusaji(a)redhat.com&gt;, > | >> "Fuse-pm-list" <fuse-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt;, "bpms-pm-list" > | >> <bpms-pm-list(a)redhat.com&gt; > | >> Sent: Friday, 14 November, 2014 8:43:18 PM > | >> Subject: integration stack component installation > | >> > | >> > | >> Greetings, > | >> At the JBoss f2f last week in Brno there was a meeting to discuss > | >> the > | >> ease of installation > | >> issue (or lack thereof) of integration stack components. > Presented > | >> here > | >> is a summary of the > | >> issue and a proposed solution as drafted by the team. Although > | >> members of > | >> platform architecture, > | >> engineering, PM and QE were present - the solution is simply > proposed > | >> at > | >> this time. We also > | >> plan to evolve the solution over time - so that the issue will be > | >> addressed more fully. > | >> > | >> Your comments are welcome! > | >> > | >> Thanks, > | >> --paull > | >> > | >> ------ > | >> > | >> Issue: Finding integration stack components to install is too > | >> difficult. > | >> This was made > | >> clear by Fuse Tooling usability reviews and is discussed in > | >> detail > | >> here: > | >> > | >> https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-977658 > | >> > | >> Proposed Solution: > | >> > | >> - Extend Eclipse Marketplace by enabling JBTIS/ JBDSIS entries > for > | >> product > | >> groupings and establish > | >> JBTIS/ JBDSIS installers based on JBT/ JBDS. > | >> > | >> Discussion: > | >> As it exists today, users who search within the standard Eclipse > | >> Marketplace for keywords > | >> such as "Camel Editor" or "Fuse" are directed to the JBDS or JBT > | >> Kepler > | >> installers. Users > | >> must select the "more info" link on the Marketplace installer > page > | >> and > | >> then page down to > | >> find this text: > | >> > | >> "Also available is the JBoss Developer Studio Integration Stack, > | >> which > | >> includes support for SwitchYard, Camel, Fuse, Fabric8, Drools, > | >> jBPM, > | >> ModeShape, Teiid and more. It is available from within JBoss > | >> Central, > | >> via the Software/update tab." > | >> > | >> This is the first mention of Fuse and directs the user to install > | >> JBDS > | >> (or JBT) and then, > | >> after installing/ restarting and as a separate action, use the > | >> Software/Update tab within > | >> JBoss Central to find the Fuse tooling. In this case Fuse is part > | >> of: > | >> > | >> "JBoss Integration and SOA Development" - (The category > description > | >> does > | >> mention Fuse.) > | >> > | >> Solution Details: > | >> > | >> The extended IS-aware Eclipse Marketplace entries will reference > | >> the > | >> existing update site > | >> and when selecting "Install" you will get a yet-to-be-defined > | >> subset of > | >> the Eclipse features that > | >> will match what you would get when using the install from JBoss > | >> Central > | >> today - but without having > | >> to install Developer Studio plugins separately first. > | >> > | >> The installer option is to be based on the JBDS installer and > will > | >> be > | >> made available from the CSP/jboss.org > | >> download next to the existing installer. > | >> > | >> JBDS 7.1.1.GA/JBDSIS 7.1.0.GA (Kepler) - What can we do today? > | >> > | >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-354 > | >> > | >> The least required changes would leave the user with a single > | >> JBDSIS > | >> installer and a single > | >> JBTIS installer when searching for "Fuse" or "Data > | >> Virtualization" for > | >> example. Upon selecting > | >> one of these installers the user would see all available > | >> installation-units (features) available > | >> in the combined integration stack. Users could then select all > | >> or > | >> just the fuse tooling IUs. > | >> This is the "laundry list" approach. > | >> > | >> JBDS 8.1.0.GA/JBDSIS 8.0.x.GA (Luna) - Short term for upcoming > | >> tooling > | >> releases. > | >> > | >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-355 > | >> > | >> * Add a new com.jboss.devstudio.core.central.feature that > | >> packages up > | >> the com.jboss.devstudio.core.central > | >> plugin and include this in com.jboss.devstudio.core.feature > | >> (this is > | >> missing today). > | >> * Enable usage tracking in JBTIS components' MANIFEST.MF files > | >> (this > | >> is under way now) > | >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-290 > | >> * create three connectors, each based on the content in JBDSIS > | >> discovery plugin.xml's top three > | >> connector categories > | >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-357 > | >> > | >> 1. Fuse ServiceWorks - ref: JBoss Integration and SOA > | >> Development > | >> 2. BRMS/BPMS - ref: JBoss Business Process and > | >> Rules > | >> Development > | >> 3. JBoss Data Virtualization - ref: JBoss Data Virtualization > | >> Development > | >> > | >> ** A1: PMs (hey Alan) must come up with appropriate names for 1-3 > | >> above. The naming convention should be > | >> "compatible" with a Mobile tools install that have been > | >> requested too. > | >> > | >> The user searches for "Fuse" from Marketplace and immediately > | >> finds > | >> JBDSIS. The installer allows > | >> the user to select from 1-3 above. The user selects "Fuse > | >> ServiceWorks" (if that's the name) by > | >> selecting the radio button (or selects all easily). > | >> > | >> JBDS 9.0.0.GA/JBDSIS 9.0.x.GA (Mars) - Make it better - continue > to > | >> evolve the solution > | >> > | >> - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBTIS-356/ > | >> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBIDE-18734 > | >> Refactor project examples in Central to remove dependencies on > | >> portal > | >> & seam (size reduction - avoid > | >> installing unnecessary plugins). > | >> > | >> Similar experience to Luna except the installer is much leaner. > | >> > | >> No default perspective change - potential stretch goal. > | >> > | >> This subject went back and forth. The user has an established > | >> perspective when they began the installation > | >> process and may be installing multiple features which may very > well > | >> have > | >> different default perspectives. > | >> Once users manually set their perspective it will be remembered > the > | >> next > | >> time they start the tool. > | >> > | >> Alternatively, the installer option definitely should be able to > do > | >> this. When installing into an existing > | >> Eclipse that is not that trivial, which is one of the reasons why > | >> JBoss > | >> Central exists. Central shows > | >> up across perspectives and when the user selects Fuse the Fuse > | >> project > | >> can declare it and would ask users > | >> if they want to move to the Fuse perspective. > | >> > | >> We could also look into adding "roles" to Central to make it > adopt > | >> better depending on what interest you > | >> have as a user. > | >> > | >> --paull > | >> > | >> > > | /max > | http://about.me/maxandersen > > -- > > Len DiMaggio (ldimaggi(a)redhat.com) > JBoss by Red Hat > 314 Littleton Road > Westford, MA 01886 USA > tel: 978.392.3179 > cell: 781.472.9912 > http://www.redhat.com > http://community.jboss.org/people/ldimaggio /max http://about.me/maxandersen