6:14 a.m.
>>>> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:06:33 -0500, Dan Allen
<dan.j.allen(a)gmail.com> said:
DA> Pete, Andy, Lincoln and I would really like to get the following two issues
DA> ironed out before Pete, Andy and I go in front of the audience at Devoxx to
DA> give our "JSF 2 and beyond: Keeping progress" coming talk:
DA> #1. Fix the broken JSR-314-OPEN mailinglist archives: **
DA> http://archives.java.sun.com/jsr-314-open.html
DA> #2. Have a community maillinst or forum.
DA> We are willing to say that the JCP.org boards are the community forum, if we
DA> can get a statement from the JCP that the e-mail gateway will eventually
DA> work (http://wiki.jcp.org/boards/index.php?b=958)
DA> The main emphasis is this talk is community involvement. It's pretty useless
DA> for us to stand up there and have zero options for the community to get
DA> involved. jsr314-comments(a)jcp.org is not a solution.
DA> I'm willing to get on a conference call if necessary to get some
DA> action.
Hello Dan. As I have mentioned several times to you before, the JCP and
Sun are under duress due to ongoing well reported regulatory concerns.
This certainly does not excuse their apparent unresponsiveness but it
can explain it.
I recommend you do this.
1. Call Max Lanfranconi of the JCP Program office and identify yourself
as the JBoss EG rep for JSR-314.
2. Mention that your spec leads have tried to resolve this issue but
have thus far not been accomodated.
3. Mention that you have the option to escalate to your EC
representative on this issue.
Dan, I understand your position and I hope you understand mine. Do you
feel that Roger and I have done enough to resolve this? If not what
other actions can we take to ensure your satisfaction?
Ed
5:59 p.m.
New subject: [jsr-314-open] mailinglist: looking for immediate action
1. Call Max Lanfranconi of the JCP Program office and identify yourself
as the JBoss EG rep for JSR-314.
Can you share with me the phone number to the JCP Program office offline?
Dan, I understand your position and I hope you understand mine. Do
you
feel that Roger and I have done enough to resolve this? If not what
other actions can we take to ensure your satisfaction?
If this is a system administration problem (which it appears to be) then it
is the JCP that is letting us down. Providing me with a point of contact is
critical step in getting this resolved. I'm hoping getting it fixed is just
a matter of making the call. We'll be satisfied when we see archives again.
-Dan
--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597
http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen
6:01 p.m.
New subject: [jsr-314-open] mailinglist: looking for immediate action
We'll be satisfied when we see archives again.
To clarify, we will be satisfied with respect to fixing the archives.
Opening up the archives for anonymous viewing is a separate issue that we
are still pursuing. First, we need to convince the community that the
archives themselves were not an empty promise.
-Dan
--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597
http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen
7:54 p.m.
New subject: [jsr-314-open] mailinglist: looking for immediate action
Fellow EG members,
I'm going to continue to use this thread to discuss the mailinglist
arrangments. It turns out that broken mailinglist archives is a side effect
of an ongoing migration of this, and other, EG lists. Please read on (or
scroll to the very bottom for the CliffsNotes)
I spoke to Max Lanfranconi yesterday about the JSR-314 mailinglist. Max is
one of two admins in the JCP program management office (PMO) office. Max and
I discussed two issues:
1. The broken JSR-314-OPEN archives
2. The public mailinglist for community members
As I understand it, Max is aware that the web-based archive for JSR-314-OPEN
(at archives.java.sun.com) is not being updated. He assured me that the
messages are still being captured, they are just not propagating to the
site. The update script was shutdown *intentionally* when the new
jcp.orgsite went live in June. The reason it was shutdown is because
the plan was
(is) to deprecate the archive server we are on and move all list archives to
jcp.org.
Migrating off of JSR-314-OPEN is *imminent*, though I don't know exactly how
or when. *Just know that we are operating on a deprecated list*.
*So what replaces JSR-314-OPEN then?*
To answer that question requires some background first. jcp.org is offering
each EG three lists, which are actually forum/listserv hybrids:
*jsr-xxx-eg* - A private list for expert group members only.
*jsr-xxx-observers* - A semi-private list for expert group members
and
invited guests. Invitated guests have to be added manually by the PMO admin.
*jsr-xxx-public* - An open list for the community. The archives are
readable by all (including search engines). E-mail addresses registered with
the jcp.org website can post. Authenticated users can also post through the
website.
As I understand it, all three lists use the same software. *But, for some
reason, they function differently.* Both the eg and observers lists have
2-way synchronization between the web-based forum and e-mail. However, the
public list only lets e-mail in the door. It doesn't send e-mail out. Posts
must be read on the forum.
As it turns out, the second of our two requests, to have a read/write
community mailiinglist, is nearly answered! There is a community forum here:
http://wiki.jcp.org/boards/index.php?b=958. Here's the statement that the
PMO issued in their summer newsletter, which aligns very closely with our
request.
As you may have noticed, the JCP program office recently completed a major
revision to the jcp.org web site. One of the changes was to
introduce
public discussion boards open to any registered user of jcp.org for each
JSR. The forums are tied to mail aliases in the format of
jsr-x-public(a)jcp.org; note that this board/alias replaces the jcp-comments
aliases. You can find links to the discussion boards on each JSR page in the
format of http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=x (x is the JSR number). There
are also a variety of discussion boards for general topics here:
http://wiki.jcp.org/boards/index.php
But there are three *showstoppers*:
1. Posts should be sent out via e-mail just like the other two lists. Why
the heck not?
2. My attempt to post via jsr-314-public(a)jcp.org *failed*
3. jsr-314-comments(a)jcp.org should be aliased to jsr-314-public(a)jcp.org
Now back to this question: *So what replaces JSR-314-OPEN then?
*
There are two issues here:
1. What happens to the current archives of JSR-314-OPEN?
2. What list do we use in the future?
Unless there are any objections here, Max has agreed to import all the
archives from March 09 until now into the jsr-314-public forum on Monday.
This will make them immediately accessible to the public and search engines.
We have the option of closing the replies on the threads. *I'm not sure what
the right answer is there.*
We can import the discussions into our list as well. Then, the two lists
will continue on their own paths.
That brings us to the second question, what is our list?
We certainly don't need both jsr-314-eg(a)jcp.org and
jsr-314-observers(a)jcp.org. And since we don't want a exclusively private
list, that leaves us with jsr-314-observers(a)jcp.org. It's not ideal, but we
could probably live with PMO manually adding invited members to this list
(to post). They claim that we are not restricted in who we choose to invite,
so at least the policy is correct.
However, the showstopper for jsr-314-observers@jcp is that the archives are
not public for reading.
We can adopt jsr-314-observers(a)jcp.org as soon as there is a public forum
for it on jcp.org. I'd like to get this resolved ASAP so we can get off this
list.
That concludes my update. I suspect there will be plenty of discussion to
follow. In summary, here are the action items for Max:
1. Posts to jsr-314-public(a)jcp.org should be sent out via e-mail.
2. Posting via jsr-314-public(a)jcp.org needs to be fixed
3. jsr-314-comments(a)jcp.org should be aliased to jsr-314-public(a)jcp.org
4. archives for jsr-314-observers(a)jcp.org needs to be publically accesable
5. JSR-314-OPEN archives should be imported into jsr-314-observers and
jsr-314-public
-Dan
--
Dan Allen
Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action
Registered Linux User #231597
http://mojavelinux.com
http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction
http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen
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participants (2)
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Dan Allen -
Ed Burns