[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir updated CDI-170: -------------------------- Fix Version/s: 1.1 (Proposed) (was: TBD) I'm working on some compatibility guidelines with Nigel Deakin (JMS spec lead) and Bill Shannon. We can use those to determine what to do here. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Mark Struberg commented on CDI-170: ----------------------------------- Please also note that @New can only be used together with @Inject and not utilized 'manually' via BeanManager#getBeans(), #getReference().. That's because (per the spec) NewBeans only exist if they get used at an injection point. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Mark Struberg commented on CDI-170: ----------------------------------- Sorry Jozef, I think I created this issues after a chat with Stu and Pete on IRC. Thus I might probably have left out parts of the argumentation chain. 1st (what might've be missing): @New has almost no benefit over @Dependent when your MyBean is in a BDA (jar with META-INF/beans.xml) The only benefit is when MyBean has already a different Scope than @Dependent - but there are easy workarounds which don't need @New even for that case. This was also in long terms discussed by the EG in 2008. See also the later added restriction that (3.12): @New has the benefit that you can create 'managed' contextual instances with injection applied even if MyBean is *NOT* in a BDA (jar with META-INF/beans.xml). But in this case MyBean will most likely DON'T have an @Inject annotated constructor (thus a default ct must exist) and also no @SomeInterceptor annotation. Also since it's not part of any BDA the ProcessAnnotatedType will _not_ be fired for this class -> no 'dynamic' interceptor can be applied via Extensions. Which means MyClass will also don't have any interceptors... So my arguing is split in 2 phases: a.) @New makes no sense for BDAs (see above) b.) @New makes no sense for non-BDAs (see above) -> @New makes no sense at all ;) -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir commented on CDI-170: ------------------------------- Yup, Jozef is technically right. However @New is not that useful today as Mark explains. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir commented on CDI-170: ------------------------------- Note that a non-insignificant portion of respondents to the poll voted that they do use @New (16%) so I believe we should leave it as is. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Mike Brock commented on CDI-170: -------------------------------- The elimination of {{@New}} is actually quite high on my list of CDI features I'd eliminate if I had a magic wand. It's not as high as my desire to remove narrower-scope injection. But it's pretty high. To me, {{@New}} is something you'd basically never use in a new system built on CDI. At least, I'd never use it. I'd jump through hoops not to. But you _may_ find it necessary to use in a system you are maintaining, when you're stuck with a bad design decision made by someone else that you simply can't change. It stretches the limits of my imagination to come up with a scenario where this may be, but I'll just assume it does. CDI is a declarative programming model. And I think a desirable characteristic of any declarative programming model, is that the meaning of declarative constructs be as plain and straight forward is as reasonably possible. I believe {{@New}} directly undermines this goal. It creates an information asymmetry between what a bean declares its scope to be, and what the scope may actually be at the call site. To me, this is a particularly offensive characteristic. But I'm not count on winning anyone over on my desire to nix/deprecate {{@New}}. I merely wanted to voice my opinion on the matter. There are, in fact, other hills I'd feel more morally righteous about dying on than this one. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Mike Brock edited comment on CDI-170 at 8/15/12 4:11 PM: --------------------------------------------------------- The elimination of {{@New}} is actually quite high on my list of CDI features I'd eliminate if I had a magic wand. It's not as high as my desire to remove narrower-scope injection. But it's pretty high. To me, {{@New}} is something you'd basically never use in a new system built on CDI. At least, I'd never use it. I'd jump through hoops not to. But you _may_ find it necessary to use in a system you are maintaining, when you're stuck with a bad design decision made by someone else that you simply can't change. It stretches the limits of my imagination to come up with a scenario where this may be, but I'll just assume it does. CDI is a declarative programming model. And I think a desirable characteristic of any declarative programming model, is that the meaning of declarative constructs be as plain and straight forward is as reasonably possible. I believe {{@New}} directly undermines this goal. It creates an information asymmetry between what a bean declares its scope to be, and what the scope may actually be at the injection site. To me, this is a particularly offensive characteristic. But I'm not counting on winning anyone over on my desire to nix/deprecate {{@New}}. I merely wanted to voice my opinion on the matter. There are, in fact, other hills I'd feel more morally righteous about dying on than this one. P.S. I implemented this in Errai CDI with great hemming and hawing, pain shooting up my spine, with tears of blood flowing down my cheeks. was (Author: cbrock): The elimination of {{@New}} is actually quite high on my list of CDI features I'd eliminate if I had a magic wand. It's not as high as my desire to remove narrower-scope injection. But it's pretty high. To me, {{@New}} is something you'd basically never use in a new system built on CDI. At least, I'd never use it. I'd jump through hoops not to. But you _may_ find it necessary to use in a system you are maintaining, when you're stuck with a bad design decision made by someone else that you simply can't change. It stretches the limits of my imagination to come up with a scenario where this may be, but I'll just assume it does. CDI is a declarative programming model. And I think a desirable characteristic of any declarative programming model, is that the meaning of declarative constructs be as plain and straight forward is as reasonably possible. I believe {{@New}} directly undermines this goal. It creates an information asymmetry between what a bean declares its scope to be, and what the scope may actually be at the injection site. To me, this is a particularly offensive characteristic. But I'm not count on winning anyone over on my desire to nix/deprecate {{@New}}. I merely wanted to voice my opinion on the matter. There are, in fact, other hills I'd feel more morally righteous about dying on than this one. P.S. I implemented this in Errai CDI with great hemming and hawing, pain shooting up my spine, with tears of blood flowing down my cheeks. -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir commented on CDI-170: ------------------------------- I've create a poll to get community feedback http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TXLCPX6 -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators: https://issues.jboss.org/secure/ContactAdministrators!default.jspa For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir commented on CDI-170: ------------------------------- There was an overwhelming (83%) majority to deprecate. So that is what we will do :-) -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

[ https://issues.jboss.org/browse/CDI-170?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy... ] Pete Muir resolved CDI-170. --------------------------- Resolution: Done -- This message is automatically generated by JIRA. If you think it was sent incorrectly, please contact your JIRA administrators For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira