Yes it will cause start up issues for applications which define transient normal scoped injections, however these Apps currently have runtime issues after dezieralization of passivatable scoped bean. Trading an easily fixable start-up issue for a hard to reproduce runtime issue seems like a good trade off to me. Stephan On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 at 12:12 Emily Jiang <EMIJIANG(a)uk.ibm.com <mailto:EMIJIANG@uk.ibm.com>> wrote: If we define an error, we will introduce a backward compatibility issue. Some app will stop starting. Will this cause a big problem? If this is not a concern, +1 on defining a DefinitionError on this case: ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient.and a warning on WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient. Many thanks, Emily =========================== Emily Jiang WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278 Email: emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com <mailto:emijiang@uk.ibm.com> Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB From: Stephan Knitelius <stephan(a)knitelius.com <mailto:stephan@knitelius.com>> To: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org>>, Date: 19/07/2016 08:26 Subject: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:cdi-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, I frequently encounter injections marked transient in client projects. I really think it would be of great help if we where to define Error/Warning when injection fields are marked transient. As Mark pointed out there may be a valid use cases for non normal-scoped bean injections to be made transient. My suggestion is: * ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient. * * WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient. Looking forward to your feedback. * * Stephan_______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 (http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 (http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information.

Yes it will cause start up issues for applications which define transient normal scoped injections, however these Apps currently have runtime issues after dezieralization of passivatable scoped bean. Trading an easily fixable start-up issue for a hard to reproduce runtime issue seems like a good trade off to me. Stephan On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 at 12:12 Emily Jiang <EMIJIANG(a)uk.ibm.com < mailto:EMIJIANG@uk.ibm.com >> wrote: If we define an error, we will introduce a backward compatibility issue. Some app will stop starting. Will this cause a big problem? If this is not a concern, +1 on defining a DefinitionError on this case: ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient.and a warning on WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient. Many thanks, Emily =========================== Emily Jiang WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278 Email: emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com < mailto:emijiang@uk.ibm.com > Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB From: Stephan Knitelius <stephan(a)knitelius.com < mailto:stephan@knitelius.com >> To: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org < mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org >>, Date: 19/07/2016 08:26 Subject: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org < mailto:cdi-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, I frequently encounter injections marked transient in client projects. I really think it would be of great help if we where to define Error/Warning when injection fields are marked transient. As Mark pointed out there may be a valid use cases for non normal-scoped bean injections to be made transient. My suggestion is: * ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient. * * WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient. Looking forward to your feedback. * * Stephan_______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org < mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html ). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html ). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information.

As Stephen points out if the "when normal scoped injects are marked transient", it will fail at runtime anyway. I am kind of thinking to throw a definition error when injection field marks as transient. Many thanks, Emily =========================== Emily Jiang WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278 Email: emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB From: Tomas Remes <tremes(a)redhat.com&gt; To: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Cc: cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org Date: 21/07/2016 07:13 Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org As you said. If we introduce definition error for this it won't be backward compatible so warning could be sufficient I think and therefore (maybe) I wouldn't solve this at specification level but only at implementation level. That's my current feeling. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Jiang" <EMIJIANG(a)uk.ibm.com&gt; To: "Martin Kouba" <mkouba(a)redhat.com&gt; Cc: cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:43:59 PM Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful I prefer to classify a definition error if when normal scoped injects are marked transient as I agree logging an error or warning are implementation details. I am still struggling to find user case for "non-normal scoped injects are marked transient". If it is not useful and problematic, why don't we just declare a Definition Error if an injection field defined transient? Easy and straightforward. Thoughts? Many thanks, Emily =========================== Emily Jiang WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278 Email: emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB From: Martin Kouba <mkouba(a)redhat.com&gt; To: cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org, Date: 20/07/2016 15:38 Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as transient is not useful Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org Do you suggest to log an ERROR message or to treat it as a definition error? Altough I don't have any real use case, I'm not so sure this should be a definition error. It reminds me unproxyable types with non-private final methods (CDI-527) - right now it is a definition error (and I think it's good) but the EG decided to change this, although it could result in runtime errors (and both Weld and OWB allow to relax this restriction). As to WARNING - the spec currently does not define anything like logging or logging levels. IIRC the only mention is in 10.5. Observer notification: "If the observer method is a transactional observer method, any exception is caught and logged by the container." And I believe we should not introduce logging levels in the spec. Martin Dne 19.7.2016 v 12:52 Stephan Knitelius napsal(a): > Yes it will cause start up issues for applications which define > transient normal scoped injections, however these Apps currently have > runtime issues after dezieralization of passivatable scoped bean. > > Trading an easily fixable start-up issue for a hard to reproduce runtime > issue seems like a good trade off to me. > > Stephan > > > > > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 at 12:12 Emily Jiang <EMIJIANG(a)uk.ibm.com > < mailto:EMIJIANG@uk.ibm.com <EMIJIANG(a)uk.ibm.com&gt; >> wrote: > > If we define an error, we will introduce a backward compatibility > issue. Some app will stop starting. Will this cause a big problem? > If this is not a concern, +1 on defining a DefinitionError on this > case: ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient.and a > warning on WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked > transient. > > Many thanks, > Emily > =========================== > Emily Jiang > WebSphere Application Server, CDI Development Lead > > MP 211, DE3A20, Winchester, Hampshire, England, SO21 2JN > Phone: +44 (0)1962 816278 Internal: 246278 > > Email: emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com < mailto:emijiang@uk.ibm.com <emijiang(a)uk.ibm.com&gt; > > Lotus Notes: Emily Jiang/UK/IBM@IBMGB > > > > > From: Stephan Knitelius <stephan(a)knitelius.com > < mailto:stephan@knitelius.com <stephan(a)knitelius.com&gt; >> > To: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > < mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; >>, > Date: 19/07/2016 08:26 > Subject: [cdi-dev] CDI-616 Injection point declared as > transient is not useful > Sent by: cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org > < mailto:cdi-dev-bounces@lists.jboss.org <cdi-dev-bounces(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Hi, > > I frequently encounter injections marked transient in client > projects. I really think it would be of great help if we where to > define Error/Warning when injection fields are marked transient. > > As Mark pointed out there may be a valid use cases for non > normal-scoped bean injections to be made transient. > > My suggestion is: > > * ERROR - when normal scoped injects are marked transient. > > * > * WARNING - when non-normal scoped injects are marked transient. > > Looking forward to your feedback. > > * > * Stephan_______________________________________________ > cdi-dev mailing list > cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org < mailto:cdi-dev@lists.jboss.org <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org&gt; > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev > > Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider > licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 > ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html ). For all other > ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and > other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. > > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales > with number 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, > Hampshire PO6 3AU > > > > _______________________________________________ > cdi-dev mailing list > cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev > > Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html ). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. > -- Martin Kouba Software Engineer Red Hat, Czech Republic _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html ). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information. Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU _______________________________________________ cdi-dev mailing list cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev Note that for all code provided on this list, the provider licenses the code under the Apache License, Version 2 ( http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all other ideas provided on this list, the provider waives all patent and other intellectual property rights inherent in such information.