Well for whatever reason Antonio sounded rather uneasy about events.
If
it's not size it must be for another reason, but take the idea of
optionality for things that might have a relatively large footprint in the
end.
I feel like we speak about the old Weld - didnt check recent version - and
not the spec itself here. If so this thread should move over weld@ and
openwebbeans@ but spec should really be about usability. One feature which
has a serious impact on size and runtime is proxying/subclassing. Remove it
and you get a different runtime, lighter in term of size, sure, but also
assumptions about classes and environment but this one doesnt seem
important in these discussions so my understanding is CDI is good enough
today for its SE part and things to work on are surely elsewhere at spec
level.
Werner
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:33 PM, <cdi-dev-request(a)lists.jboss.org> wrote:
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> 1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:32:49 +0200
> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
> To: Werner Keil <werner.keil(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org>
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> 2015-08-30 21:20 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil(a)gmail.com>:
>
> > Well if we found a way to offer some level of modularity and optionality
> > (despite SE or EE 8 not putting a strong emphasis on either yet) I would
> > certainly see it as an option. This could keep the size for some apps
> down
> > if they use other event systems already.
> >
> >
> strictly yes, in practice the event bus is rarely more than few kb so does
> it worth the time the EG would spend on it?
>
>
> > Werner
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:11 PM, <cdi-dev-request(a)lists.jboss.org>
> wrote:
> >
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> >> 1. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Romain Manni-Bucau)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:11:24 +0200
> >> From: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau(a)gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
> >> To: Werner Keil <werner.keil(a)gmail.com>
> >> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org>
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <CACLE=
> >> 7PgKRmCrKiN1+xxLvqCtm3V1AE8D3c7kz_1W_wp1fuxkw(a)mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >>
> >> 2015-08-30 20:29 GMT+02:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil(a)gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > As there is well-established event handling on the SE and ME side, in
> >> most
> >> > cases based on java.util.EventObject, I could imagine CDI events
> being
> >> > either outside a "lite" profile or at least optional, should
we
> consider
> >> > optionality.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> not sure I agree, SE has an event hierarchy but its listener model is
> not
> >> as usable as CDI most of the time because of the register side
> >>
> >>
> >> > Werner
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 6:10 PM,
<cdi-dev-request(a)lists.jboss.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
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> >> >>
> >> >> 1. Re: cdi-dev Digest, Vol 57, Issue 33 (Romain Manni-Bucau)
> >> >> 2. Re: Time to start working on CDI lite (Antonio Goncalves)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> Message: 2
> >> >> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:09:41 +0200
> >> >> From: Antonio Goncalves <antonio.goncalves(a)gmail.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [cdi-dev] Time to start working on CDI lite
> >> >> To: Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau(a)gmail.com>
> >> >> Cc: cdi-dev <cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org>
> >> >> Message-ID:
> >> >> <CA+ZZq9-YFcTKuZr=+6v=
> >> >> wH-w670E++qgBrN36DsToFEidUzenQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> >>
> >> >> For me, a Light version of CDI is clearly the features number.
> That's
> >> why
> >> >> I
> >> >> don't see events in it.
> >> >>
> >> >> For me, a CDI Lite would just focus on DI. If CDI has @Produces
and
> >> Spring
> >> >> has @Bean, then it's because 330 lakes this functionality.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> >> rmannibucau(a)gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Lite can have several definition, let's try to list them
up if it
> can
> >> >> help:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - binary size: for me until 3M for an app it is
"Lite"
> >> >> > - features number: the whole IoC set of feature is light since
you
> >> >> almost
> >> >> > always need it, it means you can do lighter but it wouldnt be
> used -
> >> >> check
> >> >> > spring, who uses only spring-ioc and not context or more?
> >> >> > - features complexity: sure we are not light here but
supporting
> >> scopes
> >> >> > already breaks "Lite-ness" IMO so not a real issue
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So my view is CDI "SE" is light enough - as a spec
and spec can't
> >> affect
> >> >> > implementations so seems the fight is not on the right side to
me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> >> > @rmannibucau <
https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
> >> >> > <
http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >> >> > <
https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >> >> > <
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Tomitriber
> >> >> > <
http://www.tomitribe.com>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2015-08-30 15:57 GMT+02:00 Antonio Goncalves <
> >> >> antonio.goncalves(a)gmail.com>
> >> >> > :
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> It's funny, I feel I'm in Rod Johnson shoes back
in Java EE 6
> where
> >> he
> >> >> >> forked 330 because he found CDI was doing too much ;o)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> For me, "CDI Lite" was just basic dependency
injection. The fact
> >> that
> >> >> CDI
> >> >> >> can now run on SE (like JPA....), is good... but for me it
has
> >> nothing
> >> >> to
> >> >> >> do with Light : it's the entire thing that can
bootstrap in SE.
> >> Good.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> So what is Lite for you guys ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Antonio
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> >> >> rmannibucau(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> 2015-08-30 15:22 GMT+02:00 John D. Ament <
> john.d.ament(a)gmail.com>:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> Personally, I'm not in favor of a slimmed down
runtime. It was
> >> tried
> >> >> >>>> with EJB, but never implemented properly (most
implementations
> >> that
> >> >> support
> >> >> >>>> EJB-lite actually support the entire thing, except
for
> deprecated
> >> >> stuff).
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>> +1, most of CDI is basic and quickly any light version
will miss
> >> >> events
> >> >> >>> or other thing - in particular in maintaining micro
services
> from
> >> >> >>> experience. Size of an implementation can easily be
< 1M so not
> >> sure
> >> >> it
> >> >> >>> would bring anything. Only important point is what
Antoine
> started
> >> to
> >> >> do ie
> >> >> >>> ensuring EE and SE parts are clearly identified and
split in the
> >> spec.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> I think if we define SE properly we won't have
a need for this.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> John
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM Antonio Goncalves
<
> >> >> >>>> antonio.goncalves(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>> @Antoine, so which content do you see in CDI
Lite ? Are you
> sure
> >> >> about
> >> >> >>>>> events ?
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> I'm in favor of a "fatter" 330
that would have :
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> - @Inject : already there
> >> >> >>>>> - @Qualifier : already there
> >> >> >>>>> -
> >> >> >>>>> *Producers and disposers *
> >> >> >>>>> -
> >> >> >>>>> *Programatic lookup *
> >> >> >>>>> - *Java SE Bootstrap*
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> When you say "*The goal here is not to
propose a new EE
> profile
> >> but
> >> >> a
> >> >> >>>>> subspec*", 330 could already be seen as a
subspec. If you put
> >> events
> >> >> >>>>> apparts, what would be missing in this list in
your point of
> >> view ?
> >> >> And
> >> >> >>>>> what obstacles do you see in archieving this
?
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> To boostrap CDI we have a CDIProvider, why not
having an
> >> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider just to bootstrap 330 (then,
CDIProvider
> could
> >> >> extend
> >> >> >>>>> InjectionProvider, so it bootstraps the all
thing) ?
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Antonio
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Antoine
Sabot-Durand <
> >> >> >>>>> antoine(a)sabot-durand.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Yes Arjan, I think it's the first
reason. We really should
> work
> >> >> with
> >> >> >>>>>> them to understand what should be added to
CDI 2.0 to have it
> >> as a
> >> >> first
> >> >> >>>>>> citizen DI in their spec.
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>> Le sam. 29 ao?t 2015 ? 23:15, arjan tijms
<
> >> arjan.tijms(a)gmail.com>
> >> >> a
> >> >> >>>>>> ?crit :
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM,
Antonio Goncalves
> >> >> >>>>>>> <antonio.goncalves(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >> >> >>>>>>> > I remember talking with the
JAX-RS guys (Java EE), years
> ago
> >> >> (back
> >> >> >>>>>>> in EE6),
> >> >> >>>>>>> > and their answer for not adopting
CDI was "too heavy".
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>> I can't find an exact reference
anymore, but I somewhat
> >> remember
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>>>>>> one of the reasons was also simply
that CDI as a general
> >> solution
> >> >> >>>>>>> finished late in Java EE 6, while
JAX-RS finished earlier
> and
> >> had
> >> >> all
> >> >> >>>>>>> the work for their own DI solution
already done.
> >> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> --
> >> >> >>>>> Antonio Goncalves
> >> >> >>>>> Software architect, Java Champion and
Pluralsight author
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Web site
<
http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> >> >> >>>>> <
http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
> >> >> >>>>> <
http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> |
Pluralsight
> >> >> >>>>> <
> >>
http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
> >> >> | Paris
> >> >> >>>>> JUG <
http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx
France <
> >>
http://www.devoxx.fr
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>>>>
_______________________________________________
> >> >> >>>>> cdi-dev mailing list
> >> >> >>>>> cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> >> >>>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >>>>> Note that for all code provided on this list,
the provider
> >> licenses
> >> >> >>>>> the code under the Apache License, Version 2
(
> >> >> >>>>>
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html). For all
> other
> >> >> ideas
> >> >> >>>>> provided on this list, the provider waives all
patent and
> other
> >> >> >>>>> intellectual property rights inherent in such
information.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> cdi-dev mailing list
> >> >> >>>> cdi-dev(a)lists.jboss.org
> >> >> >>>>
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/cdi-dev
> >> >> >>>>
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For all
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> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> >> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Web site <
http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> |
Twitter
> >> >> >> <
http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn
> >> >> >> <
http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> | Pluralsight
> >> >> >> <
>
http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
> >> |
> >> >> Paris
> >> >> >> JUG <
http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France <
>
http://www.devoxx.fr
> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Antonio Goncalves
> >> >> Software architect, Java Champion and Pluralsight author
> >> >>
> >> >> Web site <
http://www.antoniogoncalves.org> | Twitter
> >> >> <
http://twitter.com/agoncal> | LinkedIn <
> >> >>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/agoncal> |
> >> >> Pluralsight
> >> >>
<
http://pluralsight.com/training/Authors/Details/antonio-goncalves>
> |
> >> >> Paris
> >> >> JUG <
http://www.parisjug.org> | Devoxx France
<
http://www.devoxx.fr
> >
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