Hello All First the should be message from Eclipse to remind developers to have Help pages (e.g. easily created with http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/github-flavored-markdown-viewer-pl... references to their project web site.I found that plugin developers sometimes event don't have marketplace entries (and helped/pushed with about 6-8 ) Could discussion is to get started. I suggest to lobby that Eclipse would recognize non-Eclipse.org projects under EPL license as valuable part of Eclipse eco-systemthat Eclipse project committers should be aware of, give and take help.e.g. https://github.com/eclipse-color-theme/eclipse-color-theme Something like open letter from Eclipse Foundation to Eclipse plugins authors. By the way looking for (remote) speakers for Eclipse DemoCamp Beijinghttps://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse_DemoCamps_Luna_2014/Beijing Please also help to connect to Red Hat China managers or marketing. @Angelo Would this email get into jbosstools-dev list? Best regards,Paul Verest Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 11:24:10 +0200 Subject: Re: [jbosstools-dev] Nodeclipse IDE (or components) in JBoss Tools? From: angelo.zerr(a)gmail.com To: mistria(a)redhat.com CC: jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org; paul.verest(a)live.com Hi Mickael, Just for your information, Paul who is the guy of Nodeclipse https://github.com/PaulVI has integrated tern.java+angularjs eclipse inside nodeclipse http://www.nodeclipse.org/ Regards Angelo 2014-05-19 11:15 GMT+02:00 Mickael Istria <mistria(a)redhat.com&gt;: Hi all, It seems like Nodeclipse provide a very good toolset for JavaScript: http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/nodeclipseenide-eclipse-nodejs-ide . Some tools were developed in Nodeclipse, some others are aggregated from other projects (such as http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-plugin-less , http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/markdown-text-editor , http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/github-flavored-markdown-viewer-pl... ...) Should we consider putting some parts of it on Central ? or even in JBDS ? Should we try to lobby with some authors to move projects to Eclipse.org ? -- Mickael Istria Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat My blog - My Tweets _______________________________________________ jbosstools-dev mailing list jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbosstools-dev

Hi Michael Just want to add that Eclipse is regarded by some as some overhead. Maybe simple explanation and success example can show that it s easy. (Especially with cases when code/interactions continues to be on GitHub) And that would be one more nice addition to what is missing on eclipse.org site. Contributing on GitHub I myself ran into situation when PR are not even commented for a month or two. Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 12:35:29 +0200 From: mistria(a)redhat.com To: paul.verest(a)live.com; angelo.zerr(a)gmail.com CC: jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org Subject: Re: [jbosstools-dev] Nodeclipse IDE (or components) in JBoss Tools? Hi Paul, On 05/20/2014 12:09 PM, Paul Verest wrote: I suggest to lobby that Eclipse would recognize non-Eclipse.org projects under EPL license as valuable part of Eclipse eco-system MarketPlace was done to fulfill this goal and it works pretty well. Some non Eclipse.org project have been pretty successful thanks to MarketPlace and MarketPlace client. I think those should thank the Foundation for that. that Eclipse project committers should be aware of, give and take help. e.g. https://github.com/eclipse-color-theme/eclipse-color-theme The issue with the multiplication of projects out of Eclipse.org is that you end up with different process to contribute and don't have the guarantee a contribution would be appreciated and considered. Being on GitHub is not a proof of an open development process, it's "just" OSS code. That's why it makes sense for contributors/consumers (like us) to encourage projects to become official Eclipse projects. Eclipse Foundation has set up rules that ensure a really open development process and that guarantee that a project can't be locked, and that encourage contributions over forks. It makes things safer. Something like open letter from Eclipse Foundation to Eclipse plugins authors. That's probably a good idea. Maybe the Foundation (or the community in general) should make it more official that projects on GitHub/MarketPlace are welcome to become official Eclipse projects and explain to authors that being an Eclipse.org project is a sign of real openness and a generator of success. But in any way, I can fully understand from the Foundation POV and from our "consumer" POV, that there is and will always be a distinction between Eclipse.org and non-Eclipse.org projects. The Foundation rules are definitely something good, that make a difference. Please also help to connect to Red Hat China managers or marketing. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Red Hat office in China. Maybe Rob (Stryker) can help. @Angelo Would this email get into jbosstools-dev list? Yes, it's on. And this answer too. Check you CC list before sending mails ;) -- Mickael Istria Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat My blog - My Tweets

Hello All Next step could be Eclipse bug when the time is appropriate It is great that we agree about overhead. When it is said openly and with exact additional steps,that would make it clear and comprehensive. I don't know URLs to concise answer to this thread topic.

Hello All Something like Eclipse process adds a few steps- signing CLA [link]- setting up project on Github [link], Ecipse git [link] I have never contributed to Eclipse project,so I don't know exact steps. http://www.eclipse.org/committers/I did not really know what to search.Eclipse has a lot of resources in many places with different level of relevance. Well. That was discussion between the person who knows (Max)and the person who didn't see what he had imagine (Paul). Now I know how to start and where to ask when needed.

Hello All I feel a bit uncomfortable posting to email list and not knowing how many people are reading and whether they really like reading what is a bit off-topic for JBoss dev list. With Mickael's encouragement I go on. I am actually familiar with Eclipse process, but not with details as I have not practiced it. I have signed CLA (not connected to any project), but that was to not look like a outsider/stranger, as I noticed quite often communication goes between eclipse committers that seems to know each other well, while some post from users (in some project) may be overlooked. That of course has its reason as often those bugs are not of good examples of problem reporting. => Instead of showing CLA tags that divides users into 2 categories, it would be better to have link to Eclipse profile, where it could be seen for example that the person is contributor in those project or is active on Eclipse forums etc. I was not contributing to Eclipse because - there are no company to support that time (usually there should be some business that is interested to having base support for a technology as an Eclipse project) - was mostly looking for quick solutions that would work, improve something or give value to end users => now looking for way to have some financial background for the Nodeclipse project http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Nodeclipse-project-is-looking-partners-290... I have been contributing to several others projects. But at some point I decided to do it only for project that are on GitHub - less overhead with other tech, like SVN on SourceForge - I noticed that the project that are more on GitHub are generally more active than on SourceForge, Google Code, Apache - GitHub is simpler and more transparent than other code repositories - I can't be master of all trades, so I need to have some limit of scope for the projects. take the process as an excuse for not contributing, without having even evaluated the difficulty of adopting it or even tried it. I've sometimes heard "it's not on GitHub, I don't know how to contribute, so I don't contribute". In such case, it's also the responsibility of the developer to learn things and ask for questions in order to become a contributor. The Foundation isn't to blame. People who want to do things can do them, that's all that matters. yes, that may be the case for some. As there can't be one step solution to address precess issue, I think some discussion can help. Also experiments like Eclipse project on GitHub may find some better approaches. There are some plugins that actually should be as Eclipse plugin, like https://github.com/eclipse-color-theme/eclipse-color-theme/ This conversation may continue in some action with https://github.com/hendrens/jdt.spelling/issues/13 Best regards, Paul Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 11:14:39 +0200 From: mistria(a)redhat.com To: paul.verest(a)live.com; manderse(a)redhat.com CC: angelo.zerr(a)gmail.com; jbosstools-dev(a)lists.jboss.org Subject: Re: [jbosstools-dev] Eclipse process vs just OSS RE: Nodeclipse IDE (or components) in JBoss Tools? On 05/23/2014 10:20 AM, Paul Verest wrote: Eclipse process adds a few steps - signing CLA [link] - setting up project on Github [link], Ecipse git [link] Most projects have an "How to contribute" or equivalent page where this is usually clearly explained. Many projects use the same development tools/workflows (Bugzilla/Gerrit/Git/Jenkins) so you only have to learn it once. If you need assistance on how to contribute, projects have open communication channels where this can be asked. I have never contributed to Eclipse project, so I don't know exact steps. What would be interesting is to first know if you tried, and if yes, where were you blocked ? In many cases, just trying is enough to accomplish something. http://www.eclipse.org/committers/ I did not really know what to search. Eclipse has a lot of resources in many places with different level of relevance. What do you want to do? What is the question you're seeking answers for? It may sound harsh, but I have the impression that many people just take the process as an excuse for not contributing, without having even evaluated the difficulty of adopting it or even tried it. I've sometimes heard "it's not on GitHub, I don't know how to contribute, so I don't contribute". In such case, it's also the responsibility of the developer to learn things and ask for questions in order to become a contributor. The Foundation isn't to blame. People who want to do things can do them, that's all that matters. Well. That was discussion between the person who knows (Max) and the person who didn't see what he had imagine (Paul). Now I know how to start and where to ask when needed. Your feedback has a lot of value. It can be used to make the process and tools easier to understand and use, which is the main way to get more people contributing. The contribution process is a forever-evolving one, because of new constraints, new ideas, new tools, new technologies... You can use this bug to suggest some improvements to this process https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=435599 Cheers, -- Mickael Istria Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat My blog - My Tweets

On 20 May 2014, at 12:09, Paul Verest wrote: Not following what you mean here ? Yes that is a good thing overall. The problem is many plugins don't even do basic UI interaction well. i.e. litter the context menu with actions, not integrating with the existing eclipse infrastructure etc. it results in a very fragmented experience unfortunately ;/ I'm not following what you mean/expect here ? When have eclipse not seen non-eclipse.org projects as valuable ? Problem I have is that if it projects don't participate in eclipse release train nor want to honor eclipse API guidelines they become something that is really really hard to rely on. Thus we can't include everything just because it exists. What should that say that is not already happening ? You should do that in a separate mail thread instead of mingled in here. Becomes more visible that way. You can post on the community forums too if you prefer. Send me mail directly on what you are looking for and I can put you in contact. /max http://about.me/maxandersen

On 19 May 2014, at 11:15, Mickael Istria wrote: he is already aware of our interest in making Javascript better - he has been on this list a few times (Paul Verest) - but no harm in always ask again someone to contribute to eclipse.org or to jbosstools. The problem with nodeclipse from my POV is that is a bunch of non-connected, not uniform set of plugins that needs some consistency to be really competitive. Something we should definitely look at helping happening. /max http://about.me/maxandersen