Re: [jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

I'll rephrase that...Being a dick requires no effort from me. :) On 6/9/12 11:33 AM, Bill Burke wrote: > Yes, I'll spend 10x the effort just to be a dick :) > > On 6/9/12 11:26 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote: >> Yet you'll expend 10x the effort bitching and moaning? That seems >> incongruous to me. >> >> On 06/09/2012 10:12 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >>> Not gonna bother filing a bug, because I ain't gonna use it. >>> >>> On 6/9/12 10:58 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote: >>>> File bugs here: http://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL >>>> >>>> On 06/09/2012 09:27 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >>>>> Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual >>>>> logging. Sigh... >>>>> >>>>> So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary >>>>> dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string >>>>> constants based on included localization property files... >>>>> >>>>> BUT... >>>>> >>>>> There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the >>>>> message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id: >>>>> >>>>> public final String jbossLoggingSucks() { >>>>> String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+ >>>>> jbossLoggingSucks$str()); >>>>> return result; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> When you fix that, let me know. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D >>>>>>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only >>>>>> truly shared ones out in common. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's all a balance act. >>>>>> >>>>>> /max >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen<max.andersen(a)redhat.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but >>>>>>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall >>>>>>>> seeing anything better.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Bill/David, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but >>>>>>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Static vs non-static logging: >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*; >>>>>>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with >>>>>>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like >>>>>>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that >>>>>>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Performance: >>>>>>>>> ------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled. That was before string concatenation gets into play. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they >>>>>>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Usability: >>>>>>>>> ------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor. >>>>>>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated >>>>>>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :) >>>>>>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you >>>>>>>>> are just using maven and vi. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> /max >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk >>>>>>>>>>>> about this. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> :-D >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything. I do love a good >>>>>>>>>>> argument though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh thank god! I love a good argument too! I don't know about you, but >>>>>>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways. Hopefully Jim can take the banner >>>>>>>>>> and run with it... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Bill Burke >>>>>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- Bill Burke JBoss, a division of Red Hat http://bill.burkecentral.com _______________________________________________ jboss-as7-dev mailing list jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev