Re: [jboss-as7-dev] manual way to do logging?

Yes, I'll spend 10x the effort just to be a dick :) On 6/9/12 11:26 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote: > Yet you'll expend 10x the effort bitching and moaning? That seems > incongruous to me. > > On 06/09/2012 10:12 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >> Not gonna bother filing a bug, because I ain't gonna use it. >> >> On 6/9/12 10:58 AM, David M. Lloyd wrote: >>> File bugs here: http://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL >>> >>> On 06/09/2012 09:27 AM, Bill Burke wrote: >>>> Well, in looking at the way you do things, it is impossible to do manual >>>> logging. Sigh... >>>> >>>> So, at least I thought I could at least remove jboss logging as a binary >>>> dependency yet still use the processor to generate basic string >>>> constants based on included localization property files... >>>> >>>> BUT... >>>> >>>> There's a small bug (or maybe it is a feature) in that creating the >>>> message string is *ALWAYS* a string concatination if you have a message id: >>>> >>>> public final String jbossLoggingSucks() { >>>> String result = ((projectCode +"000102: ")+ >>>> jbossLoggingSucks$str()); >>>> return result; >>>> } >>>> >>>> When you fix that, let me know. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/8/12 4:11 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's the crux really. I always bitch when I have to add a log message with JBoss logging compared to the good old log4j. But I would not meet the requirements. >>>>>> >>>>>> See it positively, it's annoying enough to add a log or throw an exception that I do it less often and my code is even more efficient :D >>>>>> The other annoying bit is when your log interface is in a common module and you work on a dependent module. This requires full recompilation and I am often bitten by this with method not found exceptions. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, same happened often in eclipse plugins - they tend to move the logging message/interfaces into each module and only >>>>> truly shared ones out in common. >>>>> >>>>> It's all a balance act. >>>>> >>>>> /max >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8 juin 2012, at 09:44, Max Rydahl Andersen<max.andersen(a)redhat.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> btw. yes, I also think jboss logging is over-engineered for basic usage but >>>>>>> for stuff that needs to be memory efficient and i18n maintainable I don't recall >>>>>>> seeing anything better.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 09:31, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Bill/David, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I unfortunately cannot use JBoss Logging yet because of how Eclipse plugins are built, but >>>>>>>> just a few observations on this "fun" topic ;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Static vs non-static logging: >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eclipse plugins already are used to have to create a static string message in an interface to do i18n of logging; they even provide tooling to make this easy to do - that helps *alot*; >>>>>>>> jboss logging doesn't have that though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unfortunately we actually in Eclipse world also have the non-interface based stuff too that Bill wants and yes its awesome you can just write it quick'n'dirty but maan its a mess to work with >>>>>>>> afterwards over time. (In resteasy you probably don't see it because its much smaller than the number of eclipse plugins we have to maintain, but if I could choose now, I would like >>>>>>>> to have that stick hit me everytime I was lazy) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hacker tip: Nothing prevents you from doing a generic highlevel interface field you can use everytime you are feeling lazy - good thing is you or others can easily find the usages of that >>>>>>>> and go through and convert these messages. just saying. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Performance: >>>>>>>> ------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason and David aren't full of shit here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They proved early on in AS7 lifetime that even basic stuff in logging like checking if log is activated was costing as much as 10% overhead - even with logging disabled. That was before string concatenation gets into play. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And if you don't trust them then I can tell you Eclipse went through the exact same exercise some years back. They had grown organically over time from a few small plugins to thousands. and suddenly they >>>>>>>> were faced with several hundred megabytes of overhead and a sluggish performance. Their move to use static interfaces made a big impact in runtime performance AND memory usage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> JBoss Logging actually takes this even further - but i'll leave David and Jasons to explain those :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Usability: >>>>>>>> ------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You do not need an additional maven plugin if you just use the plain standard annotation processor. >>>>>>>> You keep saying you need one so i'm curious why you think that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is though one place where this annotation processor sucks, and that is that it isn't isolated >>>>>>>> enough to be reusable and runnable within an IDE such as Eclipse :) >>>>>>>> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/LOGTOOL-51 captures that; this shouldn't affect you though since you >>>>>>>> are just using maven and vi. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ....and I'm all for that beer too - can we talk about how JBoss Logging could be made to work with Eclipse logging framework ? :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> /max >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2012, at 00:43, Bill Burke wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6/7/12 6:21 PM, David M. Lloyd wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 06/07/2012 04:55 PM, Bill Burke wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> P.S. I hope we can have a few beers at JUDCon/JBossWorld and *NOT* talk >>>>>>>>>>> about this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> :-D >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed or anything. I do love a good >>>>>>>>>> argument though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Oh thank god! I love a good argument too! I don't know about you, but >>>>>>>>> sitting at home every day, you get a bit ornery.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've exhausted my arguments anyways. Hopefully Jim can take the banner >>>>>>>>> and run with it... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Bill Burke >>>>>>>>> JBoss, a division of Red Hat >>>>>>>>> http://bill.burkecentral.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>>>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >