Hi guys, I've post a new article about the process and rules integrations. I'm extremely open to discuss if this is the right way of exposing this topics. I've found that when people doesn't understand this topics they end up with very complicated architectural problems. The main idea behind these posts is to clarify from the functional behavior what kind of things can be done, in order to: 1) Gather feedback about new features that can be introduced to facilitate the adoption of certain patterns 2) Classify in different patterns the functional requirements to then explain which architecture fits better, or what kind of things the users needs to be have in mind to define their own architecture. http://blog.athico.com/2012/07/processes-rules-or-rules-processes-3x.html After this post a set of patterns will be described and then a set of architectural posts will go out. At this point feedback from the other developers is crucial :) Cheers -- - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio - _______________________________________________ jbpm-dev mailing list jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev

Hi Maciej, Thank you very much for your feedback! I will check your notes to see if I made some mistakes. All the examples that you see in the posts has their own test that you can run, if you want to have a project per example we will end up with 10 different projects which will contain just one single test. We should find a way to add this content to the docs. I mention to marco, that as soon as the book is published I will be focused in my blog and in the docs, so we can start adding this kind of things.

More comments inline :) On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Maciej Swiderski <mswiders(a)redhat.com <mailto:mswiders@redhat.com>> wrote: Mauricio, these posts are really good. I like that they are kind of series that provides more and more details and advanced usage scenarios and what's in my opinion most important real life examples. Great work! Any idea on how many posts you are going to provide? Was wondering that it looks like nice content to be introduced into documentation as well. Maybe not whole posts but sort of essence of it, as users especially new comers will look into documentation first and could not be aware of our blogs, wdyt? I have two more scheduled about processes and rules before jumping to Fusion

So far you have not introduced the main (in my opinion) integration between process and rule - business rule task, but that is probably scheduled for next posts... However introduction of using work item handlers here is more than needed. That gives opportunity to users to get a chance to get familiar with work item handlers concept. I kinda understand your point, but the Business Rule Task from the BPMN2 specification perspective is more related to the Stateless interaction mentioned in my posts. Talking with one of the BPMN2 spec members they only think about that kind of interaction. I think that at some point Tiho was working in something to be able to link a business rule task to a special work item like that one that I was trying to show in my examples. If that work is already done, I will update my posts to show that integration. I think that most of the true advantages of having the Rule Engine are Stateful scenarios where almost everything is handled as Facts (which is the topic of the next posts).

In the third one - great stuff is about reactive modes - both based on fireUntilHalt and event listeners and some pros and cons of each solution. Have not tried the examples myself but what could really rock is an runnable example for each post to conclude it. Do you have a better idea about how we can distribute the examples? I mean, all the examples are in my github repo. It will really rock if we standardize this kind of things. The archetypes that you mention some time ago will probably help a lot :)

P.S. While reading I spotted few minor things: - on first post last two process diagrams (illustrations) shows inclusive gateway but both text and annotations on its sequence flows refer to/suggest exclusive gateway I need to check this.. but I probably made a mistake there - on third post I think you meant beforeProcessStarted method of process event listener instead of afterProcessStarted as when this method is called process is already finished or reached first state node which could be after some rules evaluation nodes, isn't it? I need to check this specific example, but if I've used afterProcessStarted probably was because of the reason that you mention. I want to execute some rules after the process reaches the first wait state.

Maciej On 29.07.2012 14:14, Mauricio Salatino wrote: > Hi guys, > I've post a new article about the process and rules integrations. > I'm extremely open to discuss if this is the right way of > exposing this topics. I've found that when people doesn't > understand this topics they end up with very complicated > architectural problems. > The main idea behind these posts is to clarify from the > functional behavior what kind of things can be done, in order to: > 1) Gather feedback about new features that can be introduced to > facilitate the adoption of certain patterns > 2) Classify in different patterns the functional requirements to > then explain which architecture fits better, or what kind of > things the users needs to be have in mind to define their own > architecture. > > http://blog.athico.com/2012/07/processes-rules-or-rules-processes-3x.html > > After this post a set of patterns will be described and then a > set of architectural posts will go out. At this point feedback > from the other developers is crucial :) > > Cheers > -- > - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar > > - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio - > > > > _______________________________________________ > jbpm-dev mailing list > jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev -- - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -

Totally agree with having downloadable projects.. We need a quick way to transform a test into a fully distributable project, any Ideas? Archetypes is the way to go in my opinion, but if I start doing that It will slow my blog posting productivity :) I need some help please! On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Maciej Swiderski <mswiders(a)redhat.com <mailto:mswiders@redhat.com>> wrote: Comments in line. Maciej On 04.08.2012 13:09, Mauricio Salatino wrote: > Hi Maciej, > Thank you very much for your feedback! > I will check your notes to see if I made some mistakes. > All the examples that you see in the posts has their own test > that you can run, if you want to have a project per example we > will end up with 10 different projects which will contain just > one single test. > > We should find a way to add this content to the docs. I mention > to marco, that as soon as the book is published I will be focused > in my blog and in the docs, so we can start adding this kind of > things. Alright, I think soon we all will spend some time on documentation :) > > More comments inline :) > > On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Maciej Swiderski > <mswiders(a)redhat.com <mailto:mswiders@redhat.com>> wrote: > > Mauricio, these posts are really good. I like that they are > kind of series that provides more and more details and > advanced usage scenarios and what's in my opinion most > important real life examples. Great work! > > Any idea on how many posts you are going to provide? Was > wondering that it looks like nice content to be introduced > into documentation as well. Maybe not whole posts but sort of > essence of it, as users especially new comers will look into > documentation first and could not be aware of our blogs, wdyt? > > I have two more scheduled about processes and rules before > jumping to Fusion Fusion, me like, Do you already have some examples/references about event aggregation, I am looking into it for simulation so would appreciate some help here as that is new thing to me - so I am looking forward to the posts about it :) > > So far you have not introduced the main (in my opinion) > integration between process and rule - business rule task, > but that is probably scheduled for next posts... However > introduction of using work item handlers here is more than > needed. That gives opportunity to users to get a chance to > get familiar with work item handlers concept. > > I kinda understand your point, but the Business Rule Task from > the BPMN2 specification perspective is more related to the > Stateless interaction mentioned in my posts. Talking with one of > the BPMN2 spec members they only think about that kind of > interaction. I think that at some point Tiho was working in > something to be able to link a business rule task to a special > work item like that one that I was trying to show in my examples. > If that work is already done, I will update my posts to show that > integration. I think that most of the true advantages of having > the Rule Engine are Stateful scenarios where almost everything is > handled as Facts (which is the topic of the next posts). Ok, I see and that is kind of what you described in your post, that it is traditional approach to the integration between process and rule worlds but it is not the case of jBPM5 and drools (fortunately) and since we already utilize it it's good to mention about it with comment that it shares session (rule uses same session as process instance). > > In the third one - great stuff is about reactive modes - both > based on fireUntilHalt and event listeners and some pros and > cons of each solution. Have not tried the examples myself but > what could really rock is an runnable example for each post > to conclude it. > > > Do you have a better idea about how we can distribute the > examples? I mean, all the examples are in my github repo. It > will really rock if we standardize this kind of things. The > archetypes that you mention some time ago will probably help a lot :) I was thinking to provide to each post an archive with maven project that can be quickly downloaded and run. Of course github is good way for those that are already using git, but I believe that there are still quite some people not using git out there (it's crazy I know ;)). Wdyt? > > P.S. > While reading I spotted few minor things: > - on first post last two process diagrams (illustrations) > shows inclusive gateway but both text and annotations on its > sequence flows refer to/suggest exclusive gateway > > I need to check this.. but I probably made a mistake there > > - on third post I think you meant beforeProcessStarted method > of process event listener instead of afterProcessStarted as > when this method is called process is already finished or > reached first state node which could be after some rules > evaluation nodes, isn't it? > > I need to check this specific example, but if I've used > afterProcessStarted probably was because of the reason that you > mention. I want to execute some rules after the process reaches > the first wait state. Ah ok, I thought more about inserting process instance into session so I added this comment but I got your point here and that's completely fine. > > Maciej > > > On 29.07.2012 14:14, Mauricio Salatino wrote: >> Hi guys, >> I've post a new article about the process and rules >> integrations. >> I'm extremely open to discuss if this is the right way of >> exposing this topics. I've found that when people doesn't >> understand this topics they end up with very complicated >> architectural problems. >> The main idea behind these posts is to clarify from the >> functional behavior what kind of things can be done, in >> order to: >> 1) Gather feedback about new features that can be introduced >> to facilitate the adoption of certain patterns >> 2) Classify in different patterns the functional >> requirements to then explain which architecture fits better, >> or what kind of things the users needs to be have in mind to >> define their own architecture. >> >> http://blog.athico.com/2012/07/processes-rules-or-rules-processes-3x.html >> >> After this post a set of patterns will be described and then >> a set of architectural posts will go out. At this point >> feedback from the other developers is crucial :) >> >> Cheers >> -- >> - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com >> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org >> - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar >> >> - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio - >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> jbpm-dev mailing list >> jbpm-dev(a)lists.jboss.org <mailto:jbpm-dev@lists.jboss.org> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jbpm-dev > > > > > -- > - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org > - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar > > - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio - > -- - MyJourney @ http://salaboy.wordpress.com - Co-Founder @ http://www.jugargentina.org - Co-Founder @ http://www.jbug.com.ar - Salatino "Salaboy" Mauricio -