JD> So, given those problems, I withdraw the proposal. Since these problems JD> occur in IE8, it looks like these tags may be as far as 5 years away JD> from being usable. Tragic. I'm not opposing the withdrawl, but I do want to say (on behalf of Molly

Hi, Or we can simply make the renderer aware of the agent and its version . Those new tags exist to better describe a document and could very well have a meaning in various render kit for their semantic value even if not yet in HTML. Or we could have the default render kit display them as div/span with or withotu default style class, leaving the opportunity to a third party to develop an HTML 5 render kit and/or also provide a HTML 5 render kit out-of-the-box as well as the default one. Briefly, I don't think the withdrawal is justified.

Hi guys, there is two sides to the new tags: one is CSS support, second is accessibility. For me, the more important part for now is that we keep up with the latest standards in the realm of accessibility. Now there is something that we can do which all browsers as of today already support: we should implement the WAI-ARIA extensions, which add exactly the same semantic value as the proposed HTML 5 tags will do (with WAI-ARIA you can do more). However, markup created with WAI-ARIA attributes won't be valid (X)HTML as of the current versions of these specifications. We ought to still support it, to allow our users to build accessible web-applications. regards, Martin On 12/16/09, Jim Driscoll<Jim.Driscoll(a)sun.com> wrote: > > > On 12/14/09 10:28 AM, Simon Lessard wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Or we can simply make the renderer aware of the agent and its version . >> >> Those new tags exist to better describe a document and could very well >> have a meaning in various render kit for their semantic value even if not >> yet in HTML. >> >> Or we could have the default render kit display them as div/span with or >> withotu default style class, leaving the opportunity to a third party to >> develop an HTML 5 render kit and/or also provide a HTML 5 render kit >> out-of-the-box as well as the default one. Briefly, I don't think the >> withdrawal is justified. > > I know we've kind of dropped this issue, but I feel like I need to ask > this question, since one of us is missing something obvious, and I > generally find that in such cases that person is me :-) > > > If we make the renderer aware of the user-agent, and it outputs > different tags depending on that user-agent value, won't that actually > make things harder for the user, since the whole purpose of the new > markup is to help with css? What am I missing here? > > Jim > >

On 12/14/09 10:12 AM, Dan Allen wrote: > > > JD> So, given those problems, I withdraw the proposal. Since these > problems > JD> occur in IE8, it looks like these tags may be as far as 5 years > away > JD> from being usable. Tragic. > > I'm not opposing the withdrawl, but I do want to say (on behalf of Molly > Holzschlag) that there is a JavaScript library called HTML5 Now that is > supposed to "upgrade" browsers to HTML 5 w/o them actually supporting > it. I think this is the script: > http://remysharp.com/2009/01/07/html5-enabling-script/ But there might > be a newer one. Just FYI. > The updated version is the shiv at GoogleCode, referenced in my original email.