KM> Hello Ed, KM> Are any other Java EE specs following the same philosophy (Bean Validation KM> comes to mind). At this point, JSF is once again the trailblazer. I suspect that once we do it, others will follow suit. Ed -- | edward.burns(a)oracle.com | office: +1 407 458 0017 | homepage: | http://ridingthecrest.com/