On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Kito Mann <kito.mann(a)virtua.com&gt; wrote: I added a short blurb to the home page about the JSF ecosystem and included a link to this site. I was careful to say that it is not an official representation, but is nonetheless useful. Btw, we don't have to have everything on the front page, I'm just adding information and we can reorg as needed. We can include some nested navigation to break it up. For instance, the related specifications section should likely be a subpage of Specification called "Related Specifications". Just haven't gotten to it yet (I've kind of flooded right now). (Anyone want to take it?) Well, it does have a link to the download page for each project. If you aren't using Maven, you really can't get around just downloading the dist (we aren't getting into Ivy). As for the JSF 2, yes, I think we should just promote JSF 2. They can find JSF 1.2 if they go to the implementation sites. Not saying we can't mention the version structure, but we don't want to provide Maven archetype info for anything but JSF 2. Since this site is forward looking, we can't really promote starting 1.2 projects. That's really a step backwards. We just need to encourage the component libraries to get JSF 2 support out there so that we can just forget about JSF 1.2 (from an advocacy perspective). -Dan -- Dan Allen Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action Registered Linux User #231597 http://mojavelinux.com http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Lincoln Baxter, III <lincolnbaxter(a)gmail.com One technique on the home page to help new eyes recognize the nested information is to have a lot of short paragraphs on the home page that draw the user into the nested pages. Teasers so to speak. Not that I'm any information architect specialist, but if I don't see it on the home page, I usually don't go probing around without a cause. -Dan -- Dan Allen Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action Registered Linux User #231597 http://mojavelinux.com http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen

Lincoln, I really like the multi-pane approach. In fact, it's exactly what I described to Kito when giving him suggestions for JSFCentral 2.0. This layout helps people find the starting point they need, then focus their eyes. I'm hopeful that with a refreshed layout, we can really make this something that draws the eye in, and perhaps uses the space most efficiently. It's interesting to search for "framework" and look at the different ways that projects present their wares. Most of the ones that are most appealing to me are those that tell me "what it is" and "why I need it". Steven Boscarine made that point at JSF Summit that presentations should first explain why the audience should care...what problem does it solve for them. I think the other important point we are getting across is that JSF is a specification that has multiple implementations. That is just something that users need to know to understand what is going on. I split off the releated specifications page and did some wordsmithing of my own. We are really looking for feedback about which links are currently missing from the home page. JSF Matrix was a great suggestion by Kito. -Dan On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Lincoln Baxter III <lincolnbaxter(a)gmail.com > [ Read this paragraph if in a hurry ] > > I've updated the http://www.javaserverfaces.org home page, and done a > little reorganization on some others. I've word smithed a little and > attempted to present main points with concise descriptions. This will > continue to evolve, not only as we decide what information we want to > present, but also learn to express what our vision for JSF is. > > [[[ Read farther if you have a few minutes to "burn" ]]] > > I'll try not to dig too deep into marketing mumbo jumbo, but the home page > is the first chance we have to exert influence. We can put a lot of > information there, but overloading will dilute our strength. Keeping the > entry point small, and providing definite steps that the user should take > next, will ensure a greater probability that our desired outcome is reached > :) > > Basically that's long winded for, "Tell people what to think," or "Tell > people how to start thinking." Guide the interaction you want to occur, and > we want people to use JSF. > > By giving them a specific starting point, and a short list of options, you > increase the chances that they will take some action. When people get > overwhelmed, they take *no* action. A good example of this that I've heard > a few times is the Restaurant Menu. A long menu causes indecision, a lack of > action; ordering takes longer because people are afraid they won't get the > absolute best possible meal they could have ordered for their current mood. > A short menu will lead to quick decisions, people are more willing to try > something because they see everything up front, and arent afraid they are > missing something, or forgotten something they've seen on another page. > Also, most people usually order the same things over and over anyway, so an > important key is to learn what they do order, and eliminate the rest. > > That also holds true for websites... an overload of links will distract > users and give them more chances to abandon the site and go elsewhere. So > I'll try to keep tabs on things and make sure they stay simple / organized. > > ***Also!*** We also need to be careful not to undermine our own vision, > goals when writing/publicising JSF. Don't list an advantage of JSF2, then > put a little disclaimer afterwards saying "Hopefully that's the case." -- > That's not going to make people trust us! Cutting off that last internal > thought is hard, but really, it makes a big difference. It's all about > confidence. Are we confident or not??? :) > > --- > > Lincoln Baxter, III > http://ocpsoft.com > http://scrumshark.com > "Keep it Simple" > > On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 18:05 -0500, Dan Allen wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Lincoln Baxter, III < > lincolnbaxter(a)gmail.com> > Ill work on the organization some tonight. > > One technique on the home page to help new eyes recognize the nested > information is to have a lot of short paragraphs on the home page that draw > the user into the nested pages. Teasers so to speak. Not that I'm any > information architect specialist, but if I don't see it on the home page, I > usually don't go probing around without a cause. > > -Dan > > > -- > Dan Allen > Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action > Registered Linux User #231597 > > http://mojavelinux.com > http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction > http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen > > -- Dan Allen Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action Registered Linux User #231597 http://mojavelinux.com http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction http://www.google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen

Agreed. Lincoln Baxter III http://ocpsoft.com http://scrumshark.com Keep it simple. On Dec 10, 2009 3:43 PM, "Dan Allen" <dan.j.allen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Overall, the new home page looks great. However, I'm not comfortable with the "Getting started" section. We are sending them on a wild goose chase right away to Wikipedia, which wrongly identifies Tomcat as a Java EE Application Server, which it is absolutely not (sorry, I get worked up over that topic). I think what we need to do is direct them straight to the getting started page which provides a Maven 2 archetype to deploy either to Jetty/Tomcat or a Java EE app server (GlassFish is probably going to be the most neutral recommendation given it is the RI). We may have to tinker with our options here. It really is more complex than it should be right now. I'd like to recommend using the Maven 2 archetypes that Steven Boscarine has been preparing in the Weld source tree. Keep in mind that there is no hard dependency to Weld, except for the use of the Weld servlet extension to use CDI on Tomcat and Jetty. The Java EE 6 archetype, on the other hand, creates a project that produces a pure, server-independent WAR based on JSF 2.0, BV 1.0 and CDI 1.0. The only tie to Weld is an import of the helper POM that sets the API versions in a dependency management section (just a convenience thing). We are working to get these things published to Maven central. Again, more details to come. -Dan -- Dan Allen Senior Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action Registered Linux ...