I put in: <h:messages globalOnly="false"/> after the table, and get no messages. I also turned off all the validation in the various classes. This is 99% a bug in the JSF implementation. There's no reason why it shouldn't hit the "update model values" phase, because if it were dying in the process validations phase, there would be some type of message, right? Surely with all the advanced features of Seam and JSF there's some way for it tell me which phase it's in, what it's doing, etc? In any normal programming system you can trace the values of variables. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=3991154#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...