[JBoss Seam] - Re: While Seam is great, is any weakness of this framework?
by Delphi's Ghost
Regarding packaging, I started with Netbeans, and built the whole ear/jar/war project structure, and built it from scratch (obviously utilizing the documentation and examples, and a couple of posts from Netbeans bloggers) and it went pretty well and I'm fairly new at Java. I think it is very documented in the reference manual, there is just no step-by-step, but every step needed is included in the reference guide somewhere, from directory structure to config file contents.
My problem with Seam-gen comes from the fact that projects get ugly in eclipse with jar files everywhere and folders strewn about, or not displayed at all in Netbeans. This is partly due to the loose nature of Java projects held together with a build script I guess.
I'd love to see an option in seam gen where you choose an IDE and it generates the project based on the IDE chosen as opposed to trying to shoehorn the IDE structure over the seam-gen structure.
IMO, the only benefit seam-gen really gets you is the hot-deploy since deploying on html changes sucks. If it weren't for that, I'd be using my own project strucutre in Netbeans with a nice neat organizer project. However, for a new project, I'd start by using seam-gen and then cannibalizing the generated project for the config files.
Another aspect is that given the Exadel partnership, the formal seam/jboss path will be Eclipse only which again, sucks for Netbeans users. Of course if you love Eclipse, this won't be a problem. I just happen to prefer Netbeans over Eclipse.
One thing I did run into was the issue of modularizing EJB jars, which didn't seem to go down too well. I didn't delve very far into it, and this is from memory, but I recall things got messed up if I had 2 jar projects in the ear when it came to deployment. It may have been the fact that the 2 jars contained Entity beans that needed registration with Seam/hibernate.
I'm not sure how you go about developing with and using multiple jar files with seam gen, which may be another issue. Someone with more experience may be able to offer an answer on that one.
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18 years, 12 months
[JBoss Seam] - Re: While Seam is great, is any weakness of this framework?
by fperedo
Hi!
Thanks for answering so fast...
Maybe it is just me.. but I feel that lines between "cant be done without J2EE5" and "can't be done without the microcontainer" and "can be done with just tomcat" are blurry... perhaps if the documentation included some kind of feature matrix comparing the functionality of seam on each case? (also... if it can be deployed to tomcat shouldn't that mean it should be easy to deploy pretty much everywhere?)
The thing I don't like about seam-gen, is that I feel like my applications gets to have lots of code I don't quite understand... and therefore... if something it that generated code fails... its going to be really hard to fix... I would like to be able to build a really really simple example and add stuff to it, to understand exactly what is done by each piece of the project...
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18 years, 12 months
[JBoss Seam] - Re: Is seam-gen really a good idea to learn about seam?
by stu2
I was a complete newbie in January, so have recently followed the path you're on. I think seam-gen's main benefit is just providing a project structure and correct packaging of a seam app. The generation stuff was useful for my first test page, but I haven't used it since. It's much better to just create things by hand, especially since seam apps tend to be code-light.
I did find the book useful. I picked up a rough cut from Oreilly's safari, and read it straight through. It's a little dated (seam development is moving FAST), but is a much gentler introduction than the docs. Docs become extremely useful once you get the core concepts.
Beyond that, I've found that the breadth of example apps included to be tremendously helpful. When I'm not sure how to do something, I often grep through the example source to see where whatever-it-is is being used. The wiki in particular elegantly implements some non-trivial functionality. Lots to be learned from looking at others' code.
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18 years, 12 months
[JBoss Seam] - Re: While Seam is great, is any weakness of this framework?
by petemuir
"fperedo" wrote : -It is (IMHO) hard to use it without JBoss (just try OC4J for example)
We could certainly help you guys out by having an up to date list of what servers we've tested Seam on, and which we haven't. AFAIK (but this really isn't my area) OC4J isn't one of them - I think they are JBoss, Tomcat, Glassfish, Websphere and Weblogic. If you raise a JIRA issue we can get the docs updated :)
anonymous wrote : -The limit of "what can be done with seam using a fully compliant J2EE5, and what can't be done" are not clear (clear limitations, clear drawbacks)
We've tried to indicate when something needs EE5 in the manual - do you have specific cases?
anonymous wrote : -Using seam without using seam-gen, is hard, and IMHO very undocumented (no good step by step tutorial going form very simple POJO stuff to J2EE5 integration without the help of seam-gen).
| -And finally, not directly related, but all examples included in seam distribution share the same huge ant file, so it is really hard for a newbie in both ant and seam to understand how examples are deployed, and how to customize them to learn basic stuff.
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There is a reason we have seam-gen - packaging Seam apps is *very* complicated (so many of the questions on the forum relate to it) and seam-gen takes the pain out of it for you! If nothing else, run seam-gen, build a skeleton app, and that as your template for packaging your app - but I would strongly recommend seam-gen!
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18 years, 12 months