Well the first one is like half of the very very first version of Seam. We started using the term "conversation" a few years ago, so it's a copy of that concept with a planned minimalist implementation. I don't think this has a good chance of success, this is like the "let's simply map a resultset to objects" approach to object/relational mapping. You need more immediately. The second one is the same as the Seam application framework, from a high-level perspective. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4024114#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...