"kukeltje" wrote : I'm not an expert (and did not read the document in detail since most was a plain intro to seam), but wasn't (isn't) one of the goals of seam to get rid to this overly layered designs? +1, this is completely over the top layering. To summarize, this tutorial suggests: Entities DAOs Services Actions Presentation Layer which is totally unnecessary (especially both an action and service layer!). At least it doesn't suggest using DTOs ;) My approach would be to start with a single layer, and if you find yourself reimplementing functionality, factor out *that functionality* into a separate layer. anonymous wrote : e web application it's ok to have only model and actions but it's get more complicated with wider application where the business functions a called from many action/controller components or are called outside of the Seam. So, then factor out what you need to into a agnostic layer, and then call to that from Seam and your other app. Btw Seam supports EJB remote calls and WS calls. anonymous wrote : What about database access, when you want to get the same data from different places. It's nice to have persistent layer where you get all database function in one place. Err, the entity manager and named queries? Or, take a look at the Seam Application Framework - none of this layering nonsense and all your CRUD and queries in one place :) View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4117397#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...