October 2008 - jbpm-dev - Jboss List Archives

[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by kukeltje

"frantisek.kocun(a)gmail.com" wrote : When I look on jBPM.. tutorials I find only not OO examples. Application knows only tasks and processes.. maybe look at the seam dvd order example.... View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179815#4179815 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179815

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by kukeltje

"frantisek.kocun(a)gmail.com" wrote : | But I have found this use case: | You start business process on page where business object BO1 is present, business object creates another business object BO2 some tasks are present on the page where you edit BO1, some on the page where you edit BO2. Does it mean that I should store some kind of ssn and save the same in both objects? I thought that to search for tasks will make from this the same issue as if searching for business object. | I do not follow the last 2 sentences, sorry... "frantisek.kocun(a)gmail.com" wrote : | And this one (only fictive not form business) case where business key is not enough: | Imagine "friend link" example. On the page of first user sees all requests he requested and he can cancel some of them -> key should be friend. User2 sees all the requests he can accept/reject -> key should be friend2 They can't have the same key. So solution for this is to have business key in TaskInstance not in ProcessInstance. And this will be the solution for first case as well and I can left out ssn form business object:) I think that it is better to refence object form process and not vice versa. Now we use this solution and I call it business object as "task owner" and the id of business task is stored in task variable. It is not the same as assigning task to user because authorization is there as well so it is assigning task to combination of showed business object and logged user. What do you think about this? Actor-id's can be any strings, so also a combination of businessobject and userid. Then it is very easy if you know the user-id and the businessobject to only retrieve the correct tasks, but yes, kind of businesskey like functionality on task is going to be included in jBPM 4 afaik View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179809#4179809 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179809

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by frantisek.kocun＠gmail.com

Btw. Is somewhere example of using OO application with process engine. I am not interested in technologies but in principles. Only interesting articel I found is this http://devhawk.net/2004/01/30/SOA+Vs+OO+In+Business+Process.aspx . When I look for SOA everyone is describing integration and WS:( When I look on jBPM.. tutorials I find only not OO examples. Application knows only tasks and processes.. I like this form the article. Think programming without processes all logic in business object is horrible. But I have no experience with proper use of business objects with the process engine. This is what I like form article: Typically, the developer sees these processes as methods: Order.Place(), Order.Fulfill(), Order.ProcessPayment(). However, these business processes don't represent things the business object is doing, rather things being done to the business object. It's a subtle difference, but it's very important. In Ivar Jacobson's Object-Oriented Software Engineering, he talks about how over time objects tend to evolve to have methods that are only used in a single use case. He separated the concepts of the "entity" object - which represents a business object that has persistent state - and the "control" object - which represents a process that modifies the state of one or more entities. In my experience, mapping use cases to control objects is a good first order approximation of your final system design. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179789#4179789 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179789

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by frantisek.kocun＠gmail.com

Hi Roland, maybe you are right. For sure performance is a issue and there should be a lot of indices. I'm only evaluating jBPM for future use a I thought this would be more general than business key. I have not found a process yet where you need to search for a task with more than one criteria (on one page tasks will be listed with one criteria, on another with another criteria). So from this perspective business key is ok. But I have found this use case: You start business process on page where business object BO1 is present, business object creates another business object BO2 some tasks are present on the page where you edit BO1, some on the page where you edit BO2. Does it mean that I should store some kind of ssn and save the same in both objects? I thought that to search for tasks will make from this the same issue as if searching for business object. And this one (only fictive not form business) case where business key is not enough: Imagine "friend link" example. On the page of first user sees all requests he requested and he can cancel some of them -> key should be friend. User2 sees all the requests he can accept/reject -> key should be friend2 They can't have the same key. So solution for this is to have business key in TaskInstance not in ProcessInstance. And this will be the solution for first case as well and I can left out ssn form business object:) I think that it is better to refence object form process and not vice versa. Now we use this solution and I call it business object as "task owner" and the id of business task is stored in task variable. It is not the same as assigning task to user because authorization is there as well so it is assigning task to combination of showed business object and logged user. What do you think about this? View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179788#4179788 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179788

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - removing 2.0 docs?

by kukeltje

Guys, A lot of hits on google still point to the 2.0 docs. Many items are not at all valid anymore with 3.x, so I propose to remove those docs from the site and if someone still wants them, we can e.g. trigger the way back machine? Ronald View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179757#4179757 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179757

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by kukeltje

oh and besides this, you probably want it to perform as well, that would probably mean an explosion of indeces and hence lesser performance... View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179729#4179729 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179729

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: community branch

by kukeltje

Yes, I know, but still.... someone has to check/validate this, merge it, ditch it if it is not complete for a long time, update this branche with trunk (reverse merging or however it is called). And there still has to be a jira issue for it to track it etc...etc...etc Personally, I'd focus on getting more outside contributions in whatever way. I know lots of people have been creative, they just do not (or are not allowed to) post them. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179728#4179728 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179728

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Process/task search based on variables

by kukeltje

Fero, Most of the time when this is needed, to many domain data is put in the process engine. You should put as many data as possible in your own domain model and have a reference to the corresponding processdefinition by using a business key (e.g. licenceplate, ssn, or something). You filter in your domain model then any way you like and use businesskeys then to retrieve tasks for the corresponding processinstances. Maybe a method like getTasksForUserInProcessInstance(String actorid, Long[] processInstanceIds) would help then. hth and shoot if you disagree View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179727#4179727 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179727

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: gwt-console in distribution

by kukeltje

Sorry, error in quoting... correct response below "heiko.braun(a)jboss.com" wrote : Well, currently I don't see the need to leverage a framework like seam for the backend realization. GWT apps are more like fat clients with CRUD calls into the backend. I know, but since there already is some nice functionality in seam for remoting (also to be used with GWT afaik, we could also leverage seam identity management, page security etc... and lots of other functionality (ok, not the pdf generation or excel or graphs or hibernate-validator like functionality, email templating, since that requires to use jsf and jBPM is going to use GWT). This was or is going to be all 'custom developed' in the current console or jBPM core. "heiko.braun(a)jboss.com" wrote : No context/state management on server side necessary.As mentioned before, Seam does more imo... and it would mean (at least for you guys, since I do not work for JBoss) eat your own dogfood. Which would be good internal marketing I think, but that is just my opinion View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179725#4179725 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179725

15 years, 7 months

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[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: gwt-console in distribution

by kukeltje

Well, currently I don't see the need to leverage a framework like seam for the backend realization. GWT apps are more like fat clients with CRUD calls into the backend. I know, but since there already is some nice functionality in seam for remoting (also to be used with GWT afaik, we could also leverage seam identity management, page security etc... and lots of other functionality (ok, not the pdf generation or excel or graphs or hibernate-validator like functionality, email templating, since that requires to use jsf and jBPM is going to use GWT). This was or is going to be all 'custom developed' in the current console or jBPM core. "heiko.braun(a)jboss.com" wrote : No context/state management on server side necessary. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4179724#4179724 Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&p=4179724

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jbpm-dev October 2008