2 to go
by Tom Baeyens
FYI
I have 2 more issues to go (except for documentation issues). Those should not form
a problem to be finished on friday.
--
regards, tom.
17 years, 4 months
[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Analytical and operational dashboards
by kukeltje
"tom.baeyens(a)jboss.com" wrote : Or e.g. extract the right information from the users domain model in order to get the KPI's into a generic scheme and display them without coding a custom query that spans over jBPM and user tables.
How would you like to extract them without coding a custom query? Providing a java/webservice api in your application to retrieve the data? P
"camunda" wrote :
| - Some "probe" mechanism like Tom mentioned on transitions as somehow implemented by SeeWhy (but maybe less verbose for Ronald ;-))
|
Hey... I'm profesionally lazy :-)
"camunda" wrote :
| - Some BestPratcises / Basic working examples for PEntaho integrations, especially a basic cube layout and an Kettle ETL process for the jBPM log data
|
+1 (is +10 allowed to?) Maybe they are interested in helping out? Joint effort?
"camunda" wrote :
| - Some BPR reports for existing log data for generic performance indicators (process runtimes, task instance wait and run times, ...). This is what I think Heiko is working on at the moment, right?
|
My impression to
"camunda" wrote :
| - Some KPI descriptions like I mentioned earlier. Even if this may be a lot of domain data information, I think if the process processes this domain data anyway, it is not such a bad idea to calculate KPI's already out of that and send better business events to BAM (like SeeWhy does).
|
This would be the last on my list (priority wise)
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17 years, 4 months
[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Analytical and operational dashboards
by camunda
I think jBPM BI should be a mixture:
- Some "probe" mechanism like Tom mentioned on transitions as somehow implemented by SeeWhy (but maybe less verbose for Ronald ;-))
- Some BestPratcises / Basic working examples for PEntaho integrations, especially a basic cube layout and an Kettle ETL process for the jBPM log data
- Some BPR reports for existing log data for generic performance indicators (process runtimes, task instance wait and run times, ...). This is what I think Heiko is working on at the moment, right?
- Some KPI descriptions like I mentioned earlier. Even if this may be a lot of domain data information, I think if the process processes this domain data anyway, it is not such a bad idea to calculate KPI's already out of that and send better business events to BAM (like SeeWhy does).
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17 years, 4 months
[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Analytical and operational dashboards
by tom.baeyens＠jboss.com
"kukeltje" wrote : The BI software (Sorry Heiko ;-)) should be able to (and e.g. Pentaho is to get that data from multiple datasources. Missed discount can vary per customer, heck even per 'special order', and in some cases there even might be penalties etc... Leave that data where it belongs... in the domain model.
|
yes, you are right. the special variable was not a good idea. instead the same principle of associating generic KPI values should be added to the jBPM BI database.
"kukeltje" wrote : Personally I do like it, but do not like to have to model those things in. Makes it look ugly. BEA ... every x seconds did a select from the database, ... and updated the metrics. Somehow, that just feels better
the logs that are generated by default will already enable a log of PKI metrics without modelling them explicitely in the process. But for some, you need to generate extra data. Or e.g. extract the right information from the users domain model in order to get the KPI's into a generic scheme and display them without coding a custom query that spans over jBPM and user tables.
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17 years, 4 months
[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Analytical and operational dashboards
by kukeltje
@Tom,
Your first example might pull in to many domain data into the processvariables. The same is partly true for the 'missed discount' in Bernds' example. You should not have to take this into account while running/executing the process. The BI software (Sorry Heiko ;-)) should be able to (and e.g. Pentaho is to get that data from multiple datasources. Missed discount can vary per customer, heck even per 'special order', and in some cases there even might be penalties etc... Leave that data where it belongs... in the domain model.
anonymous wrote : Another variation would be to put probes on transitions. One probe could initialize a KPI variable to true and multiple other probes could turn it off. Then you can count for all the process executions that past the first probe, how many of them did not pass a second probe. This might be used to get statistical data on the % that each transition out of a decision is taken.
This is almost exactely how SeeWhy uses it. Personally I do like it, but do not like to have to model those things in. Makes it look ugly (at least in the source) and if I forgot something, I do not have the data afterwards. BEA (in to of their former BPM 'solutions') had a cooperation with a company that just knew the domain model of the engine and every x seconds did a select from the database, read the new log records since the last time (know from that specific record) and updated the metrics. Somehow, that just feels better
To bad I never had the time to try out Pentaho (tried SeeWhy) to get a detailed impression.
@Bernd,
Including those figures in the simulation is nice for generic analysis but did you also use these with slowing down e.g. one of the actors in a pool that should act on a node?
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17 years, 4 months
[Design of JBoss jBPM] - Re: Analytical and operational dashboards
by camunda
anonymous wrote :
| Open Orders: 20
| But just
| <processdefinition name>: 20
|
Add support for super-states (<processdefinition / super state name>) and I think you can satisfy a lot of the requirements already with the generic solution...
To what Tom said: Yes, very good ideas! I think these are the right directions!
Something somehow similar I had in mind with the simulation, see http://www.camunda.com/jbpm_simulation/jbpm_simulation_language_draft.html:
anonymous wrote :
|
| ...
| <business-figure name = "missed discount"
| type = "costs"
| automatic-calculation = "none|process-start|process-end"
| handler = "org.jbpm.sim.tutorial.TutorialBusinessFigureCalculator " />
| <business-figure name = "missed discount"
| type = "costs"
| automatic-calculation = "none|process-start|process-end"
| expression = "#{order.discountForFastPayment}" />
| ...
| </ scenario >
|
Basically this would be a cool improvement and the same logic could/should be used in BAM/BPR (BP-Reporting) as in BPS (BP-Simulation).
I don't remember exactly if I had implemented the "Business figures" already or if it was just a sketched idea, I think it was the latter ;-) But I can have a look at this later...
Greeting from the jBPM training in Stuttgart
Bernd
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17 years, 4 months
