What if you simply removed all sub-systems? On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <olaf.bergner(a)gmx.de&gt; wrote: > While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are > outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a > JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, > performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked > services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service > Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and > the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a > JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill. > > Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would > take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular > Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. > Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know > volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. > > What do you think? > > Regards, > Olaf > _______________________________________________ > jboss-as7-dev mailing list > jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some people/companies out there who could use it. Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin: > What if you simply removed all sub-systems? > > On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <olaf.bergner(a)gmx.de&gt; wrote: > >> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are >> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a >> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, >> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked >> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service >> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and >> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a >> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill. >> >> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would >> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular >> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. >> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know >> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Regards, >> Olaf >> _______________________________________________ >> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev > _______________________________________________ jboss-as7-dev mailing list jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

Here is a document on how to implement a subsystem, it vaguely touches on creating MSC services On 3 Sep 2012, at 21:04, Olaf Bergner wrote: > Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a > solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this > proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in > its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come > anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some > people/companies out there who could use it. > > Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin: >> What if you simply removed all sub-systems? >> >> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <olaf.bergner(a)gmx.de&gt; wrote: >> >>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are >>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a >>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, >>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked >>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service >>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and >>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a >>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill. >>> >>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would >>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular >>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. >>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know >>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Olaf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev > _______________________________________________ > jboss-as7-dev mailing list > jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

Some time ago I introduced a build propery -Dminimalistic in the build. This creates a stripped down AS which you talk about and it was the base onto which Fedora JBoss AS was created. With a small patch it works again, see https://github.com/wolfc/jboss-as/tree/minimalistic. Note that you can't use ./build.sh as it add ts.smoke property by default, so run mvn directly. jmx-remoting should be an optional module, but I have not looked too deep. Carlo On 09/03/2012 10:04 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: > Yes, that would be easy (I guess), and if I itended this to be a > solution just for ourselves, I would do that. My point is that this > proposed core/kernel distribution might be interesting as a product in > its own right. It's certainly not going to change the world or come > anywhere near JBoss AS 7's user base but there might be some > people/companies out there who could use it. > > Am 03.09.12 21:55, schrieb Ales Justin: >> What if you simply removed all sub-systems? >> >> On Sep 3, 2012, at 9:48 PM, Olaf Bergner <olaf.bergner(a)gmx.de&gt; wrote: >> >>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are >>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need >>> for a >>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, >>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our >>> networked >>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service >>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration >>> model and >>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a >>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit >>> the bill. >>> >>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would >>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the >>> Modular >>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. >>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know >>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide >>> those. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Olaf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev > _______________________________________________ > jboss-as7-dev mailing list > jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest. A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile. On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: > While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are > outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a > JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, > performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked > services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service > Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and > the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a > JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the bill. > > Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would > take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular > Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. > Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know > volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. > > What do you think? > > Regards, > Olaf > _______________________________________________ > jboss-as7-dev mailing list > jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thomas Diesler JBoss OSGi Lead JBoss, a division of Red Hat xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ jboss-as7-dev mailing list jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest. A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use the osgi only profile. On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: > While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are > outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a > JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, > performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked > services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service > Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model and > the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a > JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the > bill. > > Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would > take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular > Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. > Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know > volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. > > What do you think? > > Regards, > Olaf > _______________________________________________ > jboss-as7-dev mailing list > jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev

I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build <https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AS7-5494> It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...) On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote: > This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in > its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to > do additional work on top of what we put out as a community project. > This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest. > > A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is > supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container > perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use > the osgi only profile. > > On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: >> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are >> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need for a >> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, >> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our networked >> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service >> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration model >> and >> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a >> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit the >> bill. >> >> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would >> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the Modular >> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. >> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know >> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide those. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Regards, >> Olaf >> _______________________________________________ >> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev > -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thomas Diesler JBoss OSGi Lead JBoss, a division of Red Hat xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I mistaken in this? Right from the beginning I copied the semantics from ConfigurationAdmin <http://www.osgi.org/javadoc/r4v42/org/osgi/service/cm/ConfigurationAdmin.... and made it available as a native AS7 service - its the configadmin <https://github.com/tdiesler/jboss-as/tree/master/osgi/configadmin> subsystem that does this. In fact when you use the Felix ConfigurationAdmin <http://felix.apache.org/site/apache-felix-config-admin.html> it delegates to this services and your configurations are maintained as part of the AS7 domain model. Hence they are exposed through the management API and therefore visible in the web console and cli. > On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience. I recommend to stick with the EE programming model when you can. If your requirements are such that you need to have modular applications that can be developed by disconnected teams, need to have lifecycle with your components (i.e. start/stop/update) or loose coupling of dynamic services I'd go with the OSGi standard. In AS7 you can mix both worlds i.e. access OSGi services from EE components and vice versa. You can for example architect a complex web application as a collection of bundles, each dedicated to a specific functionality. These plugin bundles can be added/updated/removed on the fly with your webapp reacting accordingly. Additionally, you can start/stop the web context without having to undeploy the archive. Have a look at [AS7-5051] Allow EE deployments as OSGi bundles <https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AS7-5051> for more like this. --thomas On 09/06/2012 08:24 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: > That sounds reasonable. Time permitting, I might try to lend a hand. > The only downside I see that as a developer building an application > on this platform using the OSGi programming model I won't be able to > employ JBoss AS 7's configuration model for my needs. Or am I > mistaken in this? Maybe a custom configuration admin implementation > that delegates to JBoss AS 7's built-in mechanism ... > > On the other hand I do understand why one might be reluctant to > introduce yet another programming model to a wider audience. > > Am 05.09.12 10:36, schrieb Thomas Diesler: >> I agree, that there is value in a modular build. Its tracked by >> [AS7-5494] Add support for a modular AS7 build >> <https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AS7-5494> >> >> It would also allow other projects to decouple from the AS7 release >> cycle and provide a minimalistic runtime to support their stuff. >> Specifically, I'm interested to go back to a more predictable >> release cycle for the jbosgi and again include a standalone runtime >> with our distribution. The runtime would be AS7 based, include the >> osgi subsystem and possibly other subsystems we integrate with (e.g. >> naming, transaction, jmx, web, ...) >> >> On 09/04/2012 12:58 PM, Thomas Diesler wrote: >>> This probably needs to be a community driven effort. A "product in >>> its own right" actually triggers an armada of jboss/redhat folks to >>> do additional work on top of what we put out as a community >>> project. This would only be done if justified by sufficient interest. >>> >>> A good starting point would be to modify the build such that is >>> supports configurable subsystems. From a modular service container >>> perspective it's probably worth to stick with the standards and use >>> the osgi only profile. >>> >>> On 09/03/2012 09:48 PM, Olaf Bergner wrote: >>>> While I think that JBoss AS 7's architecture and implementation are >>>> outstanding neither I nor the company I'm working for have a need >>>> for a >>>> JEE container. What we *do* have a need for, though, is a robust, >>>> performant, flexibel and manageable runtime for deploying our >>>> networked >>>> services in. Having taken a look at JBoss AS 7's Modular Service >>>> Container, its extension mechanism, its flexibel configuration >>>> model and >>>> the fact that it's based on JBoss Modules I started to think that a >>>> JBoss AS 7 distribution stripped down to its core just might fit >>>> the bill. >>>> >>>> Beyond creating that minimal distribution itself I think all it would >>>> take is to add some documentation, especially on how to use the >>>> Modular >>>> Service Container, something I couldn't find *any* documentation for. >>>> Plus maybe a sample application or two. Provided someone in the know >>>> volunteered to assist me I would be more than willing to provide >>>> those. >>>> >>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Olaf >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> jboss-as7-dev mailing list >>>> jboss-as7-dev(a)lists.jboss.org >>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/jboss-as7-dev >>> >> >> -- >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Thomas Diesler >> JBoss OSGi Lead >> JBoss, a division of Red Hat >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thomas Diesler JBoss OSGi Lead JBoss, a division of Red Hat xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx