Yes, I do begin to think it's a case of RTFM (a quaint English expression meaning Read The <expletive deleted> Manual, in case you're not familiar with this). Unfortunately it's not too obvious to the newcomer which is the best 'M'. I've read most of the Nusairat book which is very badly written and not at all clear, I've read a third of Yuan which is quite a bit better and I've just started on Jim Farley's book which, so far, is very refreshing in that it actually explains things and I now begin to see what it is that Seam is doing rather than having to infer it by reading between the lines. I do still think that Seam has a lot to offer and shall persevere with the learning curve. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4093920#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...