Gavin, I think you understand where I'm coming from and thanks for the link. I've been thinking that it would be really helpful to have a resource for Seam design patterns before. There are a couple of things I think I'm missing though. We've already discussed why a page scoped DataModel ends up with detached objects, a session scoped one seems to have a similar problem whereby whether you load your list by a seam managed or an extended EM, if you inject the DataModelSelection into a conversation scoped bean, that bean will possibly contain a different EM. This is a problem that I'd like to avoid. When it comes to SLSB searches, I might be missing something but it seems like that wouldn't work correctly with a JSF DataTable. If I display a DataTable populated from an SLSB and then in the apply request values phase of the postback the DataTable recieves a DataModel from a new SLSB the new DataModel might be different and the row index may not correspond. Or am I wrong there? This could be solved by avoiding the use of DataTable and passing a custom entity identifier but then it seems that I'm missing out on one of the cool new features of JSF. Or maybe this is just the beginning of my dissolusionment........ Anyway, thanks a lot for the additions. They are exactly what I was looking for. Maybe when I've got this all figured out I can put in a wiki entry to help any one else with similar problems. View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=3957534#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...