Oh... regarding these logoutputs, I have some experience in combination with seam and there is explicit logging on getters/setters not found on debug level. Sometimes even at error (not sure when exactely) There was a configfile at the debug level, but afaik, there has been a change in policy lately to at least leave the console output with not that high a level and have the fileappender contain more detailed output, so not only look at the console!!!! And yes, if it was up to Gavin et al, jBPM would make the switch to their EL impl asap (not sure if that one runs on jdk 1.4 though View the original post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=viewtopic&p=4049318#... Reply to the post : http://www.jboss.com/index.html?module=bb&op=posting&mode=reply&a...